UK Pool - World rules

[dannyd0g]

I have never played the new World Rules in a match yet, and may be entering a tournament tomorrow (depending if i play well in practice today :o) and have a question on the rules i hope someone can advise on.

As either the white or object ball must hit a cush - say if you are on reds and you hit one red onto another red, the first red hit stays in the middle of the table but the second red hits a cush.

Is that ok or is it a foul ?

Also, in this situation if you are on reds and you hit one red onto a yellow or the black, the first red stays in the middle of the table but the yellow or black hits a cush.

Is that ok or is it a foul ?

[Robert602]

They're both ok. As long as something (red, yellow, black or white) hits a cushion after the white's first contact with a ball, it doesn't matter what it is or how it got there. (And of course if you pot a ball there's no requirement to hit a cushion).

Good luck in the tournament.

[dannyd0g]

I don't think these are quite the rules Hege has in mind but anyway...

They're both ok. As long as something (red, yellow, black or white) hits a cushion after the white's first contact with a ball, it doesn't matter what it is or how it got there. (And of course if you pot a ball there's no requirement to hit a cushion).

Good luck in the tournament.

Thanks Robert.

But you can you get round this by making the white hit a cush before the first contact on an object ball, if neither the white or any other balls contact a cush after the white contacts the first object ball ?

[Robert602]

No - coming cushion first to roll into a ball, for example, would be a foul. Only cushions contacted after the first hit count.

You occasionally have to be wary when trying to hit a ball close to a cushion with a thin contact (often comes up when trying to lay snookers). If you get the desired contact you'll hit ball and then cushion with the white - fine. If you miss it you'll hit cushion then ball from behind - foul (unless it's strong enough to hit somewhere else). This one causes an argument or two and takes a good eye from the referee, the shots can look very similar.

[dannyd0g]

Thanks again. All is clear now. :cool:

[Robert602]

Another caveat worth mentioning: If a ball already touching a cushion is hit, that ball is not considered to have hit the cushion. Consequently when a ball is close to a cushion but not touching it's common practice to confirm it with the referee / opponent before the shot is played.

This is somewhat unlike the touching ball rule, where if you play away from your own ball you are deemed to have hit it (so just rolling into a cushion is fine).

[dannyd0g]

One last question, do the jaws of the pocket count as being a cushion - for instance if you go for a pot and the ball rattles in the jaws, and nothing else goes near a cush - is that a foul ?

[Robert602]

The jaws count, so that's not a foul.

[dannyd0g]

thanks Robert.

[Burwat Champ]

Just try not to miss and then hitting a cush wont matter. hehehe

Good luck in the comp

[Robert602]

thanks Robert.
Happy to help, and if anything other questions come up after the practice today feel free to ask. There are quite a few subtle differences from old EPA beyond the cushion rule, but IMO they're a much better, more attacking and skilful set of rules once you get to know them.

A few resources:
Complete, official world rules from the EPA (http://www.epa.org.uk/wrules.php)
My club's abridged version of the above (more readable, leaves out the 'obvious' bits). (http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cupc/worldrules.php)
Comparison of old EPA / WR / BAPTO (very handy if you're familiar with one rule set already) (http://www.arseweb.com/rupe/pool/uk_rules.html)

Good luck.

[nightman26]

i have to agree these rules are better and result in faster games, the summer league my snooker club plays in play 10 singles, 2 doubles and a captains games a total of 13 games and its over by last orders, not like the winter league with the other rules which has just 9 games and can go on till midnite

[steedee]

i personally dont know a league player who's game hasn't improved because of these rules. im a much better player because of them

[Watford]

I agree much better rules!
Danny you've got no chance against a proper player if you don't know the rules! How did you get on?

I hate to bring it up but if you don't know all the foul/total snooker rules etc and what to do you could get very frustrated!

[steedee]

Where abouts do you play Danny? i see your from manc so was interested which league your in?

[totlxtc]

Another rule to note.....and ive called this foul so many times. When taking a break or placing the white on the table.....DO NOT EVER MOVE IT WITH THE CUE!! So many times players move the ball with the cue. Its classed as a shot as the cue has struck the cue ball.

[totlxtc]

i have to agree these rules are better and result in faster games, the summer league my snooker club plays in play 10 singles, 2 doubles and a captains games a total of 13 games and its over by last orders, not like the winter league with the other rules which has just 9 games and can go on till midnite

We play 6 singles and 3 doubles....doubles last forever!! and i prefer one on one

[Robert602]

I agree much better rules!
Danny you've got no chance against a proper player if you don't know the rules! How did you get on?

I hate to bring it up but if you don't know all the foul/total snooker rules etc and what to do you could get very frustrated!
Yeah the tactical situations can be very different. Quite often the best shot is a deliberate foul which an old rules player might not even consider.

If you don't let on that you're inexperienced with the rules though and just play an attacking game you could still win a few frames. A lot of league/county players, especially in singles tournaments, play an all-out open game and anyone who can clear will have chances against them. I started off a couple of years ago as someone who could pot balls and play position but not much else (coming from snooker and straight pool) and still did ok in the leagues.

[Robert602]

Another rule to note.....and ive called this foul so many times. When taking a break or placing the white on the table.....DO NOT EVER MOVE IT WITH THE CUE!! So many times players move the ball with the cue. Its classed as a shot as the cue has struck the cue ball.
You shouldn't be calling a foul for that. Besides the fact that IMO it's a bit unsporting and a good way to start a punch up, it's also perfectly legal, at least with the shaft (I've never seen a player put the ball into position with the tip).

The Cue Ball can be moved into position by hand or with the shaft of the cue, but when touched by the tip of the cue, a shot is deemed to have been played.

Shot: A "Shot" begins when all balls stop moving from the previous shot. A player "Plays a Shot" by striking the Cue Ball with the tip of the cue. A "Shot" ends when all balls stop moving from the current shot.

In fact in situations where players want to leave the white where it is (deliberate foul), it is a serious foul to simply tap the white with the shaft or ferrule precisely because it doesn't count as a shot.

[PJW]

Easiest way i find to play a deliberate foul and not moving the white is simply to place the tip on top of the white leaving it exactly where it is. Always a good option when your left touching the opposition players ball in a snooker

[Watford]

Another rule to note.....and ive called this foul so many times. When taking a break or placing the white on the table.....DO NOT EVER MOVE IT WITH THE CUE!! So many times players move the ball with the cue. Its classed as a shot as the cue has struck the cue ball.

To add to what rob said I've never seen this give as a foul!
I have known that if your tip were to touch the ball while moving the white that could be called a foul. I'm not sure about that either. I'll get my refs rules out when I get home!

[dantuck_7]

Quick question about old style rules - black in open play, 1 red over each of bottom corner pockets one of which has 3 yellows surrounding it (so much so there is no gap to get through) and there are no other yellows. Opponent pots the easy red with no effort to clear the yellows or make a cannon on the red that is tied up.

What happens next?

[PJW]

If those yellows are leaving no path what so ever through to the red then its a re-rack, this is the case if your playing the old EPA rules. If your playing World rules though its time to play a deliberate foul

[dannyd0g]

I agree much better rules!
Danny you've got no chance against a proper player if you don't know the rules! How did you get on?

I hate to bring it up but if you don't know all the foul/total snooker rules etc and what to do you could get very frustrated!

You're not wrong Watford. I wasnt expecting to do very well though; i havent played league pool for about 15 years and rarely even played casually down the pub over the last few years. So my match and tactical play was very rusty. All thats apart from not knowing the new rules !

I just wanted to see what the standard was and to give myself some kind of goal to practice for. The standard turned out to be pretty high. One guy made 3 total clearances in a row that i saw and still lost his match. Another guy is a 130 break snooker player but yet to win a match in the main comps.

I lost my main match 5-1. Not knowing the rules certainly didnt help, this definately gave my opponent the tactical initiative.

I did better in the second chance or plate competition - knowing more about the rules and potting better; only loosing in the decider when i underhit a narrow angled pressure pot to a centre pocket. This was a fatal 2 shot foul as nothing hit a cush.

[Watford]

PJW spot on there!

It's funny you really need to play the rules a bit and make a few mistakes before it all sinks in.
It's funny I can eat century breakers of breakfast if they don't know the rules and tactics but I've seen my Dad (who's a much better snooker player than me) wipe the floor with loads of county standard pool players and he's not got a clue with the rules. Like someone said before, good players will go for it the may 8 ball you but if they miss and you can pot you can beat anybody.

Case in point one of the lads off my team qualified for the World Masters pool this year!

[PJW]

PJW spot on there!

It's funny you really need to play the rules a bit and make a few mistakes before it all sinks in.
It's funny I can eat century breakers of breakfast if they don't know the rules and tactics but I've seen my Dad (who's a much better snooker player than me) wipe the floor with loads of county standard pool players and he's not got a clue with the rules. Like someone said before, good players will go for it the may 8 ball you but if they miss and you can pot you can beat anybody.

Case in point one of the lads off my team qualified for the World Masters pool this year!

I cant go back to the old rules now even if you benefit from picking the cue ball up for fouls and being able to pot opponents balls with 2. Generally you'll lose a game against a half decent player if you try to clear up and dont make it with these rules, as it should be. Yeah 2 of the lads i used to play in the same side as back in Nottingham made the England junior & U21 sides, Ashely Radford & Ryan Hewitt. Both are cracking players and can pot for fun, make me feel old at 29

[tinytim139]

I cant go back to the old rules now even if you benefit from picking the cue ball up for fouls and being able to pot opponents balls with 2. Generally you'll lose a game against a half decent player if you try to clear up and dont make it with these rules, as it should be. Yeah 2 of the lads i used to play in the same side as back in Nottingham made the England junior & U21 sides, Ashely Radford & Ryan Hewitt. Both are cracking players and can pot for fun, make me feel old at 29


Did you know ash radford made england vice?