American 8-ball question

[DavisFan76]

If your opponent makes a foul, whether the white is potted or not, can you still place the ball anywhere on the table?

[Billyboy]

When ive been watching 9 ball they get to place it anywhere so it is probs the same

[matoski]

For any foul the oponent places the cue ball where he wants. Only if the ball is potted in a wrong pocket, then the play resumes from the place where the cue ball has finished.

[DavisFan76]

For any foul the oponent places the cue ball where he wants. Only if the ball is potted in a wrong pocket, then the play resumes from the place where the cue ball has finished.

Do you mean if the wrong ball is potted? I didn't think you had to nominate a pocket on an ordinary shot. Also, what happens if the break is a foul shot (miscue, so you don't even hit the pack)? Does it go to the other player? Finally, is it just ball in hand, or is it two shots as well. That's UK 8-Ball, isn't it?

[matoski]

Do you mean if the wrong ball is potted? I didn't think you had to nominate a pocket on an ordinary shot. Also, what happens if the break is a foul shot (miscue, so you don't even hit the pack)? Does it go to the other player? Finally, is it just ball in hand, or is it two shots as well. That's UK 8-Ball, isn't it?

If you pot the ball in a pocket that you didn't nominate, than you just lose your turn, and your oponent resumes from the place whwre the cue ball has finished. If you pot a wrong ball, but you have made contact with the nominated ball first, then also your oponent resumes from the place where the cue ball has finished. If you pot the ball in a nominated pocket, and another ball is also poted (not the 8-ball), then it's a legal shot and you resume with the break. If on the break off shot the cue ball is poted or jumps over the table, then it's ball in hand for the oponent. If you miscue on the break off shot, then your oponent may chose whether he will break off, or put you back in. There are no two shots in american 8-ball, but that rule exists in an american 10 ball, because in 10-ball there is no cue in hand rule. Also in 8-ball, it's a foul if after the break off shot there are no 4 balls which made contact with the cushions. In that case the oponent may chose to have ball in hand, or to rerack the pack. You can find the rules on www.internationalpooltour.com website.

[cyrusbobo]

8 ball, Oh my god, americans invent another game?

[matoski]

8 ball, Oh my god, americans invent another game?

Why another game? It's as old as the pool itself. That's the game with coloured and striped balls.

[DavisFan76]

Why another game? It's as old as the pool itself. That's the game with coloured and striped balls.

Exactly! It's always been called '8-ball', that's nothing new. Isn't it also called '8-ball' with red and yellow balls as well?

[Billyboy]

When I see yellow and red balls they only seem to be in use in the pubs

I think what the guy is saying that the americans take the game and make there own rules or something

[poolqjunkie]

When I hear 8 ball, American 8 ball comes to mind.
There are several sets of rules, most players play by the BCA rules, but then there are many house rules in different pubs, and local halls. 9 Ball seems to be more consistent in terms of rules. If you play 8 ball in a strange place, you should ask for the rules first.
In BCA rules, you do not spot the balls once they are down, but in some places they spot the balls up when you foul, and you can only shot upward from the head string. In BCA, you get "ball in hand" which means you can put it anywhere you want.

[forcefollow]

8 ball, Oh my god, americans invent another game?

"Americans inventing another game?" LOL We have invented many things. Stay tuned we are not done yet. People tend to invent things when they are given the freedom to.

[cyrusbobo]

Why another game? It's as old as the pool itself. That's the game with coloured and striped balls.

is it the game the 15 coloured balls placed in triangle, if it is, it's quite commonly played in china, but i just don't know the name is called 8 ball, now i know

[cyrusbobo]

"Americans inventing another game?" LOL We have invented many things. Stay tuned we are not done yet. People tend to invent things when they are given the freedom to.

buddy i am joking, and i am think that, american cannot compete with british, so they invent the 9 ball game, do you agree?

[forcefollow]

Americans have no knowledge of UK snooker. The American version of snooker is completely different than what the pros play and over the last 10 years has become virtually extinct. Americans started out playing carom and slowly pool became more popular. If Americans put a tenth of the money, energy, and enthusiasm into snooker that exist in American Football the US would dominate the sport. I live in the fourth largest city in North America and know for a fact that there is no professional grade snooker table available to the public. The only good tables I know of are in private residences.

I am working to turn people on to snooker here. I wish the powers that be at the BBC would showcase the game.

[DavisFan76]

is it the game the 15 coloured balls placed in triangle, if it is, it's quite commonly played in china, but i just don't know the name is called 8 ball, now i know

That's the one.

[Nugget]

If Americans put a tenth of the money, energy, and enthusiasm into snooker that exist in American Football the US would dominate the sport.

The game is picking up across Europe and getting pretty big in China, I wouldn't be so sure.

The Americans can't even dominate pool!:p

[poolqjunkie]

"Americans inventing another game?" LOL We have invented many things. Stay tuned we are not done yet. People tend to invent things when they are given the freedom to.

Well, in all fairness, the Chinese have invented lots of things we use nowadays. I dont think we should attack someone from China because there is no as much freedom in his country as in ours.:)
China is really opening up. The fact that a Chinese can join a public forum to freely discuss snooker with people from all over the world without being censor is a big step forward. Just my opinion.:)
Going back to 8 ball, I was told that it is a very popular game in China, and they called it 16 colors or something like that. It is more popular than 9 ball, but it was played on a smaller version of snooker table, with tighter pocket, and a curved jaw rather than normal straight jaw around the pockets, is that correct?

[poolqjunkie]

The game is picking up across Europe and getting pretty big in China, I wouldn't be so sure.

The Americans can't even dominate pool!:p

Yes, it seems that with all the coaching and new technology shaft/tip/cues...etc happening in America, the Americans are slipping in their 9 ball dominance.

The Asians, and the Europeans are really dominating both men and women pool now.

In my humble opinion, I think the cultural and mentality has something to do with it. Asians are known to be a very patient and enduring race, with a display of great intelligence,. They would work harder than anyone else in order to survive the worst condition. We see Chinese at every corners of the world, and in most top universities in the world. They have the mentality to study something with obsession and never give up. "Fun" is something they enjoy while working hard to achieve success. This is the kind of mentality needed to be good at snooker or pool. Almost all the Asian and Europeans players I have watched are very quiet but deadly killing machines.

[DavisFan76]

The game is picking up across Europe and getting pretty big in China, I wouldn't be so sure.

The Americans can't even dominate pool!:p

Yeps, we destroyed them in the Mosconi!

[forcefollow]

The game is picking up across Europe and getting pretty big in China, I wouldn't be so sure.

The Americans can't even dominate pool!:p

Americans are do not care about pool. Most socalled professionals do not play full time. There is absolutely no money in pool. First place in most "pro" tournaments are around 1500 US. The top paying tournament is the US open at 50,000 US. In a number of US tournaments the prize checks bounce and players never get paid. Vegas does not even publish odds concerning pool tournaments. Pool in the US is for amateurs and a bar room amusement.

If money ever did come into the sport, watch out.

[matoski]

Americans are do not care about pool. Most socalled professionals do not play full time. There is absolutely no money in pool. First place in most "pro" tournaments are around 1500 US. The top paying tournament is the US open at 50,000 US. In a number of US tournaments the prize checks bounce and players never get paid. Vegas does not even publish odds concerning pool tournaments. Pool in the US is for amateurs and a bar room amusement.

If money ever did come into the sport, watch out.

It's not true that there is no money in pool. For an example, the three 8-ball tournaments held in Reno, Las Vegas and L.A. in 2006 had 3 milion dolars prize money each, with 350 000 $ for the winner in Reno and 500 000 $ in the other two tournaments. Also there are anual tournaments like Glass City Open in Toledo, the Derby City Clasic, US Open and many other tournaments.

[forcefollow]

It's not true that there is no money in pool. For an example, the three 8-ball tournaments held in Reno, Las Vegas and L.A. in 2006 had 3 milion dolars prize money each, with 350 000 $ for the winner in Reno and 500 000 $ in the other two tournaments. Also there are anual tournaments like Glass City Open in Toledo, the Derby City Clasic, US Open and many other tournaments.

If you are referring to the IPT most of the prize money for those 8 ball tournaments were never paid. The Glass City Open no longer takes place. The Derby and the US open do not pay enough to motivate anyone other than the most dedicated top players.

[Nugget]

Americans are do not care about pool. Most socalled professionals do not play full time. There is absolutely no money in pool. First place in most "pro" tournaments are around 1500 US. The top paying tournament is the US open at 50,000 US. In a number of US tournaments the prize checks bounce and players never get paid. Vegas does not even publish odds concerning pool tournaments. Pool in the US is for amateurs and a bar room amusement.

If money ever did come into the sport, watch out.

It's getting away from my original point a little, but the money in pool, high or low, is the same for everyone. Europeans seem to be emerging as a dominant force in pool, competing for the same prizes as the Americans.

My point was that your claim of the US dominating snooker if they decided to take an interest might not be such a certain one. Yours is a pretty big country, so if the game took off there you would obviously expect to see some sort of impact on the tour.

China is a bigger country, has a very large number of people playing snooker, and has already had an impact on the tour with a few professional players joining it, led by multiple tournament winner Ding Junhui.

If interest in the game grows in other European countries, then it would be even less likely that the US would dominate the game with them already being so far behind the much larger and snooker-mad China anyway.

All of this is hypothetical, of course, as the main game in the US is still 9-ball, and there seems to be a fair degree of reluctance to switch to the "slower" game of 10-ball, despite 9-balls many flaws.

[forcefollow]

It's getting away from my original point a little, but the money in pool, high or low, is the same for everyone. Europeans seem to be emerging as a dominant force in pool, competing for the same prizes as the Americans.

My point was that your claim of the US dominating snooker if they decided to take an interest might not be such a certain one. Yours is a pretty big country, so if the game took off there you would obviously expect to see some sort of impact on the tour.

China is a bigger country, has a very large number of people playing snooker, and has already had an impact on the tour with a few professional players joining it, led by multiple tournament winner Ding Junhui.

If interest in the game grows in other European countries, then it would be even less likely that the US would dominate the game with them already being so far behind the much larger and snooker-mad China anyway.

All of this is hypothetical, of course, as the main game in the US is still 9-ball, and there seems to be a fair degree of reluctance to switch to the "slower" game of 10-ball, despite 9-balls many flaws.

Those are all valid points. My speculation concerning the potential of America is based in large part on the absolute extremes Americans go to in a competitive pursuit they care about. For example, you would be absolutely amazed at the money and effort that goes into American football in the state of Texas. The University of Texas has perhaps the most well funded and organized athletic program in the world. If that type of focus was placed on snooker there is no limit to how good American players would be.

In the world of pool I rank America fourth internationally.

I think snooker would eclipse pool in popularity in the US if the Brits ever decide to promote it here.

[cyrusbobo]

Well, in all fairness, the Chinese have invented lots of things we use nowadays. I dont think we should attack someone from China because there is no as much freedom in his country as in ours.:)
China is really opening up. The fact that a Chinese can join a public forum to freely discuss snooker with people from all over the world without being censor is a big step forward. Just my opinion.:)
Going back to 8 ball, I was told that it is a very popular game in China, and they called it 16 colors or something like that. It is more popular than 9 ball, but it was played on a smaller version of snooker table, with tighter pocket, and a curved jaw rather than normal straight jaw around the pockets, is that correct?

actually in china we enjoy alot of freedom, it's not like what have been publicised by western media, but in regard to democracy, i think we still need to wait for some time, at least need a large amount people of middle class rising.
yes in china 8 ball is popular, the table is different with the 9 ball table,

[cyrusbobo]

Yes, it seems that with all the coaching and new technology shaft/tip/cues...etc happening in America, the Americans are slipping in their 9 ball dominance.

The Asians, and the Europeans are really dominating both men and women pool now.

In my humble opinion, I think the cultural and mentality has something to do with it. Asians are known to be a very patient and enduring race, with a display of great intelligence,. They would work harder than anyone else in order to survive the worst condition. We see Chinese at every corners of the world, and in most top universities in the world. They have the mentality to study something with obsession and never give up. "Fun" is something they enjoy while working hard to achieve success. This is the kind of mentality needed to be good at snooker or pool. Almost all the Asian and Europeans players I have watched are very quiet but deadly killing machines.

lol , i know pretty much about asian, yes that's true,

[cyrusbobo]

It's getting away from my original point a little, but the money in pool, high or low, is the same for everyone. Europeans seem to be emerging as a dominant force in pool, competing for the same prizes as the Americans.

My point was that your claim of the US dominating snooker if they decided to take an interest might not be such a certain one. Yours is a pretty big country, so if the game took off there you would obviously expect to see some sort of impact on the tour.

China is a bigger country, has a very large number of people playing snooker, and has already had an impact on the tour with a few professional players joining it, led by multiple tournament winner Ding Junhui.

If interest in the game grows in other European countries, then it would be even less likely that the US would dominate the game with them already being so far behind the much larger and snooker-mad China anyway.

All of this is hypothetical, of course, as the main game in the US is still 9-ball, and there seems to be a fair degree of reluctance to switch to the "slower" game of 10-ball, despite 9-balls many flaws.

i think snooker is a delicate game, but i am criticising american for not being delicate, it's culture difference, but indeed some American player are very entertaining and eye catching

[DavisFan76]

Americans are do not care about pool. Most socalled professionals do not play full time. There is absolutely no money in pool. First place in most "pro" tournaments are around 1500 US. The top paying tournament is the US open at 50,000 US. In a number of US tournaments the prize checks bounce and players never get paid. Vegas does not even publish odds concerning pool tournaments. Pool in the US is for amateurs and a bar room amusement.

If money ever did come into the sport, watch out.

I thought Pool was the number one cue sport in the US? Or don't they really care about cue-sports in general?


i think snooker is a delicate game, but i am criticising american for not being delicate, it's culture difference, but indeed some American player are very entertaining and eye catching

Snooker is a more delicate game than pool, but a lot of power is required in certain situations.

AAAAAnnyway, to get the thread back on topic, here's another question about 8-ball! Where is the best place to hit the pack on the break-off shot? Is the ball on the point the best place to hit it to get a good break, or is it better to move the cue ball to the side a bit and try to hit the side of the pack? I'm used to just clipping the corner of the pack as you do in the snooker break off shot!

[forcefollow]

I thought Pool was the number one cue sport in the US? Or don't they really care about cue-sports in general?



Snooker is a more delicate game than pool, but a lot of power is required in certain situations.

AAAAAnnyway, to get the thread back on topic, here's another question about 8-ball! Where is the best place to hit the pack on the break-off shot? Is the ball on the point the best place to hit it to get a good break, or is it better to move the cue ball to the side a bit and try to hit the side of the pack? I'm used to just clipping the corner of the pack as you do in the snooker break off shot!

Americans don't care about cue sports in general. Even the pros have a bad attitude at times. Its not uncommon for a player to forfeit a match because they wanted to play a round of golf or poker or they just decided to sleep late. The American pro game is dead.

[cyrusbobo]

Americans don't care about cue sports in general. Even the pros have a bad attitude at times. Its not uncommon for a player to forfeit a match because they wanted to play a round of golf or poker or they just decided to sleep late. The American pro game is dead.

i think most of pro play snooker or pool, because they love to play, so it isn't really a attitude problem, if US player don't care or don't love the cue sports, why they turn into pro in the first place

[forcefollow]

i think most of pro play snooker or pool, because they love to play, so it isn't really a attitude problem, if US player don't care or don't love the cue sports, why they turn into pro in the first place

You have to first define what you mean by "pro" I don't even define these guys as real pros. A pro is someone who makes their living solely by their chosen daily activity. Most of these guys are independently wealthy, have a backer or some other means of income. No American makes a real living from playing pool. Most of them are single, no family, no responsibilities and when they grow old they are broke. Yeah they play because they love it, when they feel like it. Don't let the payouts that are posted on AZ fool you that doesn't take into account their traveling expenses, losses from gambling and the money they owe their backers.

[matoski]

I thought Pool was the number one cue sport in the US? Or don't they really care about cue-sports in general?



Snooker is a more delicate game than pool, but a lot of power is required in certain situations.

AAAAAnnyway, to get the thread back on topic, here's another question about 8-ball! Where is the best place to hit the pack on the break-off shot? Is the ball on the point the best place to hit it to get a good break, or is it better to move the cue ball to the side a bit and try to hit the side of the pack? I'm used to just clipping the corner of the pack as you do in the snooker break off shot!

In 8-ball you must hit the 1 ball which is allways in front of the pack, and hit it hard enough, so at least 4 balls make contact with the cushion. It's not a legal shot if you break the pack in a snooker fashion, beacause you must hit the 1 ball first. That kind of break off is legal only in straight pool (14/1).

[DavisFan76]

In 8-ball you must hit the 1 ball which is allways in front of the pack, and hit it hard enough, so at least 4 balls make contact with the cushion. It's not a legal shot if you break the pack in a snooker fashion, beacause you must hit the 1 ball first. That kind of break off is legal only in straight pool (14/1).

Thanks for clearing that up.

[matoski]

Thanks for clearing that up.

In straight pool you can't effort to play a power break off shot, because in that game the coloured and striped balls are not divided between the oponents, but you can pot any nominated ball on the table. If you break off with power, and nothing goes in, then your opponent is going to wipe the floor with you.

[poolqjunkie]

In 9 ball you need to hit the one ball first but not in 8 ball. Some people hit the first ball, some the second ball and whatever they feel like really. But it is true most people prefer to hit the first top ball, although it is not a must.
There are lots of pool players in 9 ball in the US who makes their living playing pool, giving lessons, and doing exhibitions such as Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, Shane Van Boeing, Rodney Morris...etc. I dont know how much they make. If they have a sponsor, they probably have at least their expenses covered.
I dont think they make millions, and for sure they dont make as much as golf players--but they probably make enough to get by or else they wont be doing it for so many years.

[forcefollow]

In 9 ball you need to hit the one ball first but not in 8 ball. Some people hit the first ball, some the second ball and whatever they feel like really. But it is true most people prefer to hit the first top ball, although it is not a must.
There are lots of pool players in 9 ball in the US who makes their living playing pool, giving lessons, and doing exhibitions such as Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, Shane Van Boeing, Rodney Morris...etc. I dont know how much they make. If they have a sponsor, they probably have at least their expenses covered.
I dont think they make millions, and for sure they dont make as much as golf players--but they probably make enough to get by or else they wont be doing it for so many years.

Archer and Van Boening's earnings are in the 120,000 - 150,000 range. But, there are only maybe 10 guys like that in the US. Archer, Strickland and several other top players lost their sponsors this year. Very few American players have corporate sponsors now.

[Rethunk]

8-ball: you'll get the best break from hitting the head ball dead center. The 8-ball must be located in the center of the 3rd row (of course), and there must be a solid in one back corner of the rack and a stripe in the other back corner. All other balls are to be placed "randomly".

By some rules--especially on coin-operated tables--making the 8-ball on the break is a win, in which case striking an outside ball on the 2nd or 3rd row on the break has a slightly improved chance of sinking the 8.

In addition to the power break (8-ball, 9-ball, bank pool) and safety break (14.1 continuous a.k.a. "straight pool") there are some specialized breaks as well, the most notable of which may be the one-pocket break.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-pocket
http://www.onepocket.org/getting_started.htm

If you want to extend your snooker safety play to pool, then give straight pool or one-pocket a try. One-pocket is widely considered the most difficult game on an American pool table.

As a rule professional pool players who play on the American tour(s) make squat. Johnny Archer was the first player to earn US$100,000 in tournament winnings in the States, which happened in 1993 or so. Players jumped at the chance to make more money on the short-lived IPT tour, which (predictably) went bust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Pool_Tour

[cyrusbobo]

Archer and Van Boening's earnings are in the 120,000 - 150,000 range. But, there are only maybe 10 guys like that in the US. Archer, Strickland and several other top players lost their sponsors this year. Very few American players have corporate sponsors now.

pool and snooker got different charm, so sometimes it's not about payed or expense covered or not, first they must love the game, when economy up and down, sometimes they may got sponsor, sometimes not, but in china, though the pool player is not revered as much as snooker player, but they can run a pool salon, or teach someone else, as long as people's fancy about the game is not faded, i think it's always easy to make a living by the skill on the game.