TSB - Ebdon’s complaint to The WPBSA

[ferret]

Peter Ebdon has complained to the WPBSA about the new format of The Welsh Open in regards to playing straight though and not having a break after the 4th frame, I spoke with WPBSA chairman Jason Ferguson earlier today and asked about the content of the complaint. Basically Peter complained about having to play through ... Continue Reading (http://www.thesnookerblog.com/2011/02/ebdons-complaint-to-the-wpbsa/)http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheSnookerBlog/~4/xNAugVygx7Q

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[miscuehamburg]

That's the same he was telling in his Berlin interview two weeks ago. So he came to Wales kind of preoccupied in the first place. He has of course every right for his opinion, even more so because this is his 20th year on the tour. As an associate of the pre Hearn governing body one would expect criticism like this from him.

I think his arguments lack a bit of consistency. The difference between Bo7/9 does not seem so huge that coming from abroad would be senseless, nor does the shorter distance cause that much upsets in the results. Not GB based pros are rare. Moreover, I think snooker needs to become more international, and this includes travelling, -even for 'lesser' formats if need be. (Ronnie can you hear me:D)

PE misses the interwall, but is it really necessary for just 7 frames at most? The players leave the arena quite often anyway. Agreeably the cloth gets remarkably dirty without the intervall-brushing, but this could easily be taken care by the ref if both players ask him to.

The quarters will be Bo9 again, so maybe Peter just didn't stay long enough to enjoy the tournament;)

[sprogbasket]

I wish Peter Ebdon the best of luck - I made an official complaint to the WPBSA last year after O'Sullivan's petulant non 147 break when he only potted the final black at the insistance of the referee....still waiting to hear back.

Didn't even have courtesy to reply. I cynically thought it might be because he is considered such a "Draw" for the game.

Recent events however have shown that tide may be turning and people realising that the game is actually bigger than Mr O...wasn't missed in Germany - won't be missed in Wales....might be missed from the top 16 soon !

Ooops may have tried to hijack this thread - Apologies.

[cally]

I was looking over at ebdon "brushing" the table and realised he wasn't happy about something, but the funny thing is the complaint about the table not being brushed or maybe the break, i dunno, who knows with peter eh...

But when i seen him "brushing" the table i looked over at the scoreboard and only 2 frames had been played... :confused:

carter was just sitting in his chair, god knows what was going through his head, probably the same as everyone else... what the .... is he upto now. :D

Just peter with his head up his butt, it will blow over like it always does with him mun, he likes a good whinge now and then don't he...:)

[Gerry Armstrong]

All this "needs to be brushed after 4 frames" nonsense is exactly that - nonsense!!

Let's examine the evidence. The WC final is the best of 35 frames, split in to 4 sessions. The first 3 sessions consist of 8 frames, leaving a maximum of 11 frames to be played in the final session. The usual mid-session interval takes place after 4 frames in that final session so if the WC goes to a deciding frame, guess how many frames will be played on the table without it being brushed and blocked? You guessed it, 7 frames!!!

Have you ever heard any WC finalist complain that the table was a disgrace towards the end and there were loads of kicks because it hadn't been brushed and blocked for 7 frames? Of course not!! It's just Peter Ebdon being Peter Ebdon.

Utter nonsense.

[Monique]

All this "needs to be brushed after 4 frames" nonsense is exactly that - nonsense!!

Let's examine the evidence. The WC final is the best of 35 frames, split in to 4 sessions. The first 3 sessions consist of 8 frames, leaving a maximum of 11 frames to be played in the final session. The usual mid-session interval takes place after 4 frames in that final session so if the WC goes to a deciding frame, guess how many frames will be played on the table without it being brushed and blocked? You guessed it, 7 frames!!!

Have you ever heard any WC finalist complain that the table was a disgrace towards the end and there were loads of kicks because it hadn't been brushed and blocked for 7 frames? Of course not!! It's just Peter Ebdon being Peter Ebdon.

Utter nonsense.

That's exactly my point on the blog.
Players have played potentially 7 frames without interval and table servicing in every best of 11 format, in every second session of best of 19 played 8/11.
This means all "regular" semis, Masters except the final and "asian" finals.
Can't remember Ebdon complaining about it.

[superaussie]

well said peter straight talking as ever

:D:cool:

[cue1]

That's exactly my point on the blog.
Players have played potentially 7 frames without interval and table servicing in every best of 11 format, in every second session of best of 19 played 8/11.
This means all "regular" semis, Masters except the final and "asian" finals.
Can't remember Ebdon complaining about it.

Maybe it's cos he hasn't made the final session of a best of 35 final or gone the length of a best of 19 or a best of 11 in a loooooooooooong time?! :confused::D

He simply forgot what it's like ;):D

Of course he's entitled to his own opinion but it's the same for everyone and that's what matters, really! And it's not like it's the same thing in every tournament. :snooker:

[Monique]

well said peter straight talking as ever

:D:cool:

I Peter doesn't like best of 7, fine, he's entitled his opinion. But the reasons he raised for his complaints just don't hold the water. He's beeing playing mini-sessions of 7 frames without "tea cup break" or table servicing for 20 years and it never seemed to bother him.:rolleyes:

[gazza147]

Peter has always been the Same! Unless hes Winning of Course.

He has been playing Tactics on his Opponents for years taking so Much Time Per Shot etc etc! Which he should have been Warned for at least as its Bad for the Game.

[missneworleans]

Well was it for Peters best but indeed we saw a lot of horrible kicks...

[Monique]

Well was it for Peters best but indeed we saw a lot of horrible kicks...

We saw a lot of kicks in Berlin also and the format was the regular one and the tables were brushed at MSI. The room was very hot and dry and this was probably the reason for them.

[Odrl]

To be fair, 7 frames without the table being brushed can only be played if there are 11 frames in the session, and even then only if the match goes to a decider. Here it's the default format, with a lot of 4-3 results. But whether Ebdon is right or not, other players seem perfectly willing to accept the conditions. They've been tolerating kicks for a long time, so I don't see that changing any time soon.

As for his other criticisms of the format, I agree with him entirely, and it's a shame that his position is now viewed as some sort of stubborn opposition to progress.

[steedee]

I'm trying to read what Ebdons said but all I can make out is "Blah Blah Blah, Whinge Bitch Moan". :rolleyes:

[Jools]

PE might be a lot of things but he's aware that it might make him unpopular if he stands up and give this opinion, i can't believe he's in a minority of 1. Where are the other voices? Probably too scared to be seen as a whinger.

Can't speak about the brushing i'm not experienced enough a player to comment but it is sad to see formats getting shorter and shorter.

Good on him for not caring about his detractors. Who's opinion is more valid anyway?

[superaussie]

the tables have been poor this week

[Looki]

The conditions haven't always been optimal before. And what should be remembered is that conditions are always the same for both players. It's all about to being able to adapt. It's interesting that those who are playing very well (Williams, Higgins, Selby) don't seem too bothered.

Obviously Ebdon doesn't want formats to be shortened (I don't love it either) and he's using every possible "argument" to make his point. There have been kicks but has the amount been unusual? I don't think so. Also the lack of MSI bothers him. Well, there are players who say the opposite that having an MSI distracts them... Who's to say what's the right way to operate? :confused:

[cue1]

The conditions haven't always been optimal before. And what should be remembered is that conditions are always the same for both players. It's all about to being able to adapt. It's interesting that those who are playing very well (Williams, Higgins, Selby) don't seem too bothered.

Obviously Ebdon doesn't want formats to be shortened (I don't love it either) and he's using every possible "argument" to make his point. There have been kicks but has the amount been unusual? I don't think so. Also the lack of MSI bothers him. Well, there are players who say the opposite that having an MSI distracts them... Who's to say what's the right way to operate? :confused:

Not only the ones that have been playing well, but also the ones that haven't done so great, haven't complained. I've seen most if not all post match interviews & none seemed to complain, on the contrary, they like the variation :snooker:

There are more & more tournaments with different formats and those are professional snooker players, it's their job to adapt to any format & condition. I don't suppose any of us could or should ask for a tailor-made job!!! :confused:

On a side note, one thing I've always liked & respected about Ronnie O'Sullivan is that he never blamed the tables or the playing conditions for his poor performance!

[superaussie]

robbo an dott said conditions were crap

why would dott moan when he won

:rolleyes:

[Welshsteve]

I think it's a cheak to complain. The players leave the arena after nearly every frame these days anyway so it's not like they don't get away from the arena. Players like Ebdon are also experienced in playing long final sessions in the big tournaments and you don't see him asking the ref to brush the table then do you?

[spike]

That is the key word here "adapt". As much as I respect Ebdon's thoughts and opinions on the subject and indeed he does make some valid points, has to accept it and get on with it. I for one at first was sceptical of the change of format at first, but I am warming to the idea of certain tournaments having their (own identity) in relation to the changes made to the format etc..

[Monique]

I might be unfair but I can't help to think that Ebdon's complains have more to do with him opposing every Barry Hearn initiative rather than anything else.
Just an opinion of course.

[Welshsteve]

I might be unfair but I can't help to think that Ebdon's complains have more to do with him opposing every Barry Hearn initiative rather than anything else.
Just an opinion of course.

You hit the nail on the head there. Peter has been against Barry Hearn from day one

[cue1]

You hit the nail on the head there. Peter has been against Barry Hearn from day one

I wonder why when there are enough opportunities for all the players to make more money than they did before, especially for a player like him on the back end of his career :confused:
Or is he just too scared of falling out of the top 16 and too lazy to play in the qualifiers? :rolleyes:

[Slasher]

If he wanted a break he could have just fallen on the floor and taken a nap.

[masterwill86]

If this is another crusade against Hearn, why don't he just give up completly and let the youngsters come up and work hard to reach his career earnings (not sure that makes sense), he should be grateful as if Barry Hearn hadn't introduced the current ranking system, he would have had to qualify for this event & the cruicble;

In fairness he has a point about the tables, it's hardly been 'touch and feel', but they have been events with tables in worse condition, regardless of the format, I guess we'll have to wait till after the final to find out whether it has been a sucess or not, but i guess opioion will be split 60-40 :S

[beechy1212]

Didn't Ebdon playing all the PTC's? Aren't they best of 7 with no break?

[FOXMULDER]

Ebdon is correct - best-of-sevens's shouldn't be used in ranking events.

Not having an interval changes the psychology of the game. Normally, if you're two or three frames behind, you know the interval is coming and you have a chance to regroup or "recharge your batteries". In best-of-seven that's not possible. This means there'll be less comebacks, and therefore less drama.

When are these people going to realise that there's nothing wrong with the game, or the standard format - it's their own incompetence in promoting and marketing snooker that has (partially) caused it's decline.

Changing formats, shotclocks, snooker-for-yobs in Blackpool, entrance music... all these things are gimmicks, and a gimmick is only ever a very short-term solution to a lasting problem.

I fear for the game.

[Inoffthered]

Peter has always been the Same! Unless hes Winning of Course.

He has been playing Tactics on his Opponents for years taking so Much Time Per Shot etc etc! Which he should have been Warned for at least as its Bad for the Game.

This post speaks the truth :D

[cazmac1]

Peter is one 100% right in asking for the table to be brushed, It only takes a few minuets, no longer than it takes some players to leave the playing area and go to the toilet. If I'm not mistaken Hendry got 3 bad contacts out of the last four shots he played. Peter is right insisting that this is a professional tourney and as such he is within his rights to expect the very best conditions. The argument that it’s the same for all players is not true either as some players like to float the ball in which leaves them open to more kicks where others like to hit the ball harder.

[cue1]

Peter is one 100% right in asking for the table to be brushed, It only takes a few minuets, no longer than it takes some players to leave the playing area and go to the toilet. If I'm not mistaken Hendry got 3 bad contacts out of the last four shots he played. Peter is right insisting that this is a professional tourney and as such he is within his rights to expect the very best conditions. The argument that it’s the same for all players is not true either as some players like to float the ball in which leaves them open to more kicks where others like to hit the ball harder.

You hardly find the same playing conditions in other professional sports. In football, you have 4 teams in the same group, two of them may meet in rainy conditions and the other two may meet in sunny conditions. In tennis grand slams, the semis are held on different days, would this be fair to the player that has a day less to recover? How about if that players wins his match after 5 long sets? Aren't they pros that play & practise tennis for hours & hours every day? In bowling, pro-bowlers compete on different lane conditions session after session & trial after trial. I could go on & give examples for almost every single sport.

A construction worker is also a professional in his own field. Should he by default ask for the same working conditions everytime he steps into a construction site? Should he object if the conditions are a bit hot or a bit cold? Or just like any other pro, adapt & get on with it?

I would expect that at least the top 32 in the world would have every shot in the book. Striking the ball hard or just floating it are supposed to be part of their arsenal and the key is to adapt and use the most suitable weapon for a particular condition.

Of course you're entitled to you own opinion but if what you're saying is true then professional tournaments would be carbon copies of each other only held in different venues. How boring would that be to players, officials, viewers & sponsors?

[Gerry Armstrong]

Peter is one 100% right in asking for the table to be brushed, It only takes a few minuets, no longer than it takes some players to leave the playing area and go to the toilet. If I'm not mistaken Hendry got 3 bad contacts out of the last four shots he played. Peter is right insisting that this is a professional tourney and as such he is within his rights to expect the very best conditions. The argument that it’s the same for all players is not true either as some players like to float the ball in which leaves them open to more kicks where others like to hit the ball harder.

The final session of the Masters after the mid-session interval is scheduled for 7 frames as is the final of the WC, 2 of the biggest sessions in the world of snooker and it's NEVER been mentioned that the table should be brushed half way through.

Peter is 100% wrong and just moaning cos he got beat - simple as.

Kicks are not caused by the tables not being brushed and blocked after 4 frames in a best of 7 match. That's complete and utter nonsense!! I saw Matthew Stevens' last match but one and he had 2 really bad kicks in the same frame. The frame score was 0-0 at the time, as was the score in points when he had the 1st kick.

[cazmac1]

You hardly find the same playing conditions in other professional sports. In football, you have 4 teams in the same group, two of them may meet in rainy conditions and the other two may meet in sunny conditions. In tennis grand slams, the semis are held on different days, would this be fair to the player that has a day less to recover? How about if that players wins his match after 5 long sets? Aren't they pros that play & practise tennis for hours & hours every day? In bowling, pro-bowlers compete on different lane conditions session after session & trial after trial. I could go on & give examples for almost every single sport.

A construction worker is also a professional in his own field. Should he by default ask for the same working conditions everytime he steps into a construction site? Should he object if the conditions are a bit hot or a bit cold? Or just like any other pro, adapt & get on with it?

I would expect that at least the top 32 in the world would have every shot in the book. Striking the ball hard or just floating it are supposed to be part of their arsenal and the key is to adapt and use the most suitable weapon for a particular condition.

Of course you're entitled to you own opinion but if what you're saying is true then professional tournaments would be carbon copies of each other only held in different venues. How boring would that be to players, officials, viewers & sponsors?

It always make me LOL when people try and compare snooker and football, as for all the shots, its clear you don't understand snooker at all. With regards to conditions snooker is unique in that the conditions can be controlled, it is this constanst improvement in conditions and materials that has brought the game to it's current level, now we have people trying to take us backwards to club like condition. what a joke.

[Odrl]

Peter is 100% wrong and just moaning cos he got beat - simple as.

To be fair to Ebdon, he did bring this up before the tournament as well. ;)

[cazmac1]

The final session of the Masters after the mid-session interval is scheduled for 7 frames as is the final of the WC, 2 of the biggest sessions in the world of snooker and it's NEVER been mentioned that the table should be brushed half way through.

Peter is 100% wrong and just moaning cos he got beat - simple as.

Kicks are not caused by the tables not being brushed and blocked after 4 frames in a best of 7 match. That's complete and utter nonsense!! I saw Matthew Stevens' last match but one and he had 2 really bad kicks in the same frame. The frame score was 0-0 at the time, as was the score in points when he had the 1st kick.

Kicks can happen at any time but anyone who says that at table covered in chalk does not increase the possiblity of bad contacts is talking out there backside.

[cue1]

It always make me LOL when people try and compare snooker and football, as for all the shots, its clear you don't understand snooker at all. With regards to conditions snooker is unique in that the conditions can be controlled, it is this constanst improvement in conditions and materials that has brought the game to it's current level, now we have people trying to take us backwards to club like condition. what a joke.

That's the same lame excuse I've heard from every so called "expert" in their sport!!! :rolleyes:

Instead of lol'ing, why don't you look into Ebdon's ulterior motives?!

[Gerry Armstrong]

Kicks can happen at any time but anyone who says that at table covered in chalk does not increase the possiblity of bad contacts is talking out there backside.

No-one knows what causes kicks so there is absolutely no scientific basis to draw that conclusion. Opinions on the other hand are like backsides...

[Gerry Armstrong]

To be fair to Ebdon, he did bring this up before the tournament as well. ;)

Sounds like he was getting his excuses ready early :D

[cazmac1]

No-one knows what causes kicks so there is absolutely no scientific basis to draw that conclusion. Opinions on the other hand are like backsides...
You obviously watch too much telly and I would suggest you are more a snooker fan than a player and like to to repeat things you've heard parrot fashion. Like I said you are talking out your backside.
MR Einstein

[Gerry Armstrong]

You obviously watch too much telly and I would suggest you are more a snooker fan than a player and like to to repeat things you've heard parrot fashion. Like I said you are talking out your backside.
MR Einstein

You can suggest what you like about me, I don't care.

However, if you wish to prove that not brushing a table causes kicks then please present your evidence.

[cazmac1]

There are different types of kicks and the ones we are talking about are directly linked to chalk and the table not been cleaned. Go down the club get the white ball rub chalk all over it and then play a few shots.
I know what I know from playing this game for 30 years. FACT

[Gerry Armstrong]

There are different types of kicks and the ones we are talking about are directly linked to chalk and the table not been cleaned. Go down the club get the white ball rub chalk all over it and then play a few shots.
I know what I know from playing this game for 30 years. FACT

If you do that, why don't you get a kick every time? And if you've tried it you KNOW that is the case - FACT.

I've been playing for 30 years too - FACT.

There has NEVER been any CONCLUSIVE proof to link any sort of kick directly to chalk - FACT.

Still no evidence.

[cally]

Kicks kicks kicks eh...:D:p

Now now boys.:rolleyes:

[nevets]

There is a "What Causes Kicks?" thread I think.