STAR Table not set-up to genuine spec's.

[blinky88]

I feel sure the cushions are regulation, no undercut. On the other hand, the slate pocket cut-outs in some tournaments look to be about 1/2" over sized. The WSC table may only be 1/4" over sized which would account for less breaks, it's difficult to see because the slate is covered by felt. I am aware snooker is a spec-takers sport and if the tables were absolutely regulation, there wouldn't be 100 breaks one after another, not as exciting as it now is, that is absolutely certain. The question is: do people want to see snooker played on tables set-up to exacting spec's. There may be many who prefer to see unrealistic breaks one after another on non-standard tables and I guess it is possible the sport would not attract the audiences it now enjoys if the tables were so. If you have a look at the tables Alex Higgins and Reardon played on, it is now a much easier game, super fast cloth with little to no nap, very responsive cushions and bigger pocket cut-outs make it so. I also think the Star Table slate cut-outs differ from tournament to tournament. If the tables were all set-up to true regulation spec's, it would provide a more realistic and interesting game and one everyone could relate to. There would not be so many breaks over 100 however, that said, everyone would get to see snooker at its absolute best .... this is only my opinion of course.

[cazmac1]

This is an old argument and I sure that there will be quite a lot of replies. I for one would like to see tighter pockets, this would favour players will close cue ball control. There should also be a standard template for every table in the land no matter where, after all if you play darts the sizes on the dart board never change no matter what level you play at, so it should be the same for snooker.
I hate any kind of under cut what so ever.

[cally]

I played on the star tables at glos academy t'other day and i can assure you caz, you wouldnt want the pockets tightened bud...lol...

[Gerry Armstrong]

This is an old argument and I sure that there will be quite a lot of replies. I for one would like to see tighter pockets, this would favour players will close cue ball control. There should also be a standard template for every table in the land no matter where, after all if you play darts the sizes on the dart board never change no matter what level you play at, so it should be the same for snooker.
I hate any kind of under cut what so ever.

You couldn't have picked a worse sport to make your point than Darts. PDC trebles are bigger than BDO trebles, hence the higher 3 dart averages in the PDC.

[frazz]

it may also have something to do with the pdc having taylor/lewis/barney/anderson etc lol. i have played on the tables at gloucester and played on the main tour when the riley aristocrats were being used and i dont care what anyone says, the qualifying tables are 10times tighter than tv tables! the tv ones accept 90percent down rails no matter if its high into top knuckle or hits cushion a foot before bag, the qualifier tables need to be bqang on whether they have just been re-covered that morning or not

[MasterBreak147]

I played on the star tables at glos academy t'other day and i can assure you caz, you wouldnt want the pockets tightened bud...lol...

I second that lol, i went to Sheffield star academy and the tables was lovely for sure you don't want those pockets tighter, next tables to me was ebdon, o'sullivan and ding and those robots just never missed on the same tables i was playing on which showed me that the tables are mean and they are just so bloody good

[gem]

I think the pockets look very tight in this years championship. Many missed pots down the rails.

[FOXMULDER]

There were a record 83 centuries in the 2009 World Championship, and I believe that was played on Riley Aristocrats. Doesn't that undermine your point...?

[cazmac1]

You couldn't have picked a worse sport to make your point than Darts. PDC trebles are bigger than BDO trebles, hence the higher 3 dart averages in the PDC.

Opps, but you get the point anyway.

[cazmac1]

I played on the star tables at glos academy t'other day and i can assure you caz, you wouldnt want the pockets tightened bud...lol...
All the same to me.

[Inoffthered]

I second that lol, i went to Sheffield star academy and the tables was lovely for sure you don't want those pockets tighter, next tables to me was ebdon, o'sullivan and ding and those robots just never missed on the same tables i was playing on which showed me that the tables are mean and they are just so bloody good

Top post. People need to stop kidding themselves that they are buckets ( or at least very generous ), if it were all that easy... Hey, Q School soon. Take a shot ;)

[Terry Davidson]

Just to add my 2 cents worth as I just had 2 weeks at the Southwest Snooker Academy. I have a BCE Westbury at home which I thought was set to the templates used on the Riley pro tables but I can tell you the Star tables at the academy are a lot tighter.

However, there is one slight difference between the tables at the Academy and those on TV and that is the cloths are always brand new on the TV tables and are replaced through the tournament and also the spotlights in use keep the table surface quite warm. The brand new cloths are the reason some balls are able to touch the cushion just before the pocket yet still slide in.

At the Southwest Academy the cloths are not brand new (but still in pristine shape and changed frequently) so those tables will play tighter than those on TV. I can guarantee that as I practiced on them for 13 days.

I did notice a slight difference between the 2 tables I used, and one was definitely harder than the other and I think that is just down to human error from the table fitter as he can't be expected to get each and every table perfectly to template all the time.

I believe the Star tables in use for the pros on TV are tight enough and don't need any tinkering. Potting a ball down the cushion is still tough and in fact tougher than on my table at home even though I have the #10 cloth fitted now

Terry



Terry

[blinky88]

Terry, I respect your comment, that said, I am still absolutely certain in my mind, the slate cut-outs on the Star Tables are at least 1/2" oversize and at times slightly smaller. If they were genuinely regulation, I do not believe 100 breaks would be seen so often. It would be a much truer representation of the game if they were genuinely regulation, perhaps not so spectacular however, it would be much better viewing. The slate cut-outs can be very deceptive because felt covers the slate. I'm sure everyone can appreciate if the cut-outs were bought forward as I suspect, the pockets would accept balls that would normally jaw. I have been watching with interest, my 1st thought was the cushions were undercut ..but.. that does not seem the case, they look regulation. It has taken a lot of time to come up with the theory I now have. I could be proven wrong if the spec's on the slate cut-outs was readily available however, I haven't any luck finding them. All statements herein are strictly my opinion.

[gavpowell]

If you have a look at the tables Alex Higgins and Reardon played on, it is now a much easier game, super fast cloth with little to no nap, very responsive cushions and bigger pocket cut-outs make it so

I don't play at all so I'm not disagreeing, but wouldn't a faster cloth, larger pockets etc make the game harder in terms of cueball control? They'd be sliding all over the spot and going in-off all the time, no?

[andy carson]

You couldn't have picked a worse sport to make your point than Darts. PDC trebles are bigger than BDO trebles, hence the higher 3 dart averages in the PDC.

and also the original dart bard had no trebles at all on it...... (the manchester log end board)

[Acrowot]

Where do you get the idea that PDC dartboards have wider trebles than the BDO? Phil Taylor would annihilate any WDO player on any board.

[andy carson]

Where do you get the idea that PDC dartboards have wider trebles than the BDO? Phil Taylor would annihilate any WDO player on any board.

ted hankey said it back in 2009, its due to the different wires they use on brands of boards, the treble is actually the same size on the board but the PDC use a thinner wire between numbers etc making it a bigger area to be able to take a dart into it. same as tables really slight differences between brands found.

[Acrowot]

That is just an excuse. They all changed the wire to a different shape to try a stop so many bounce outs. WDO and PDC both use the same boards.

[vmax4steve]

The tables for tv tournaments have bigger pockets to make potting easier and therefore sell the game to the public who don't play it. Judd Trump has realised this and is "making hay while the sunshines" to quote the the late Ted Lowe. Look at the difference when last years WSC was played on the new Star tables compared to the alleged same tables this year. Either the templates have changed or the tables can be altered to suit.

[Inoffthered]

The tables for tv tournaments have bigger pockets to make potting easier and therefore sell the game to the public who don't play it. Judd Trump has realised this and is "making hay while the sunshines" to quote the the late Ted Lowe. Look at the difference when last years WSC was played on the new Star tables compared to the alleged same tables this year. Either the templates have changed or the tables can be altered to suit.

I've seen Judd practice. Trust me, he makes a lot of hay no matter where he's playing.

[blinky88]

During frame 15 of the China Open one of the commentators was talking about a match play table in one tournament being setup with the fall of the slate being set back 1/4" into the pocket and how difficult it was to pot balls. I am now more convinced than ever that my original assumption was correct. I believe the cushions are more than likely regulation however the slate has been bought forward possibly as much as 1/2". One hundred breaks every second frame is just not on, sure it's still good snooker and certainly good for TV, that said, in the real world 100 breaks simply do not occur that often.

[magicman]

The players you are talking about are the very best in the world and no matter where they play 100 breaks do occur often. I can see you're very invested in your theory, but the truth is that the table is the same for both players regardless, and if those players were on any other table they'd be knocking in even more tons!

[Terry Davidson]

All I can say is I played on the Star tables at the Southwest Snooker Academy and they were a hell of a lot tighter than any normal club table I've played on and also tighter than my own table here at my facility.

In 2 weeks there with daily coaching and practice, the best I managed was a 93 and that involved a few lucky shots.

I also have a set of the IBSF templates here and with the exception of the middle pockets, I believe the Star tables are very very close to those, but with the middle pockets on the Star tables slightly more forgiving (if you can call it that)

Terry

[hotpot]

Like Magicman says these players are just so good . Take a look at a lot of big breaks and i would say the majority of times you can count on one hand ( if That ) the number of times they lose almost precise position . Most of the pots are therefore relatively easy by their standards . Besides this they are capable of doing it frame after frame , thats the big difference .

[blinky88]

Hi Terry,

Star tables finally get it right. I consider the tables down-under are regulation, much tighter than those set-up in the UK. It may not be as spectacular as the games played in the UK however to me, it is the best snooker I have seen in a long time. I can see by the comments of many members herein they considered the games very exciting. You really do not have to be a rocket scientist to see it is an entirely different game. The pockets didn't worry Mark Williams, he played almost flawless snooker, in fact, after watching his match against Gilbert, I think he will be extremely hard to beat.

[1blonde]

Cliff Thourburn once said: "I have never played on a table where the pockets where big enough!"

Alex Higgins once said: "The pockets at Willie Thorns club where so big I nearly fell in as I was walking around the table!"

It is all subjective and for what my opinion is worth (not much) the tables are obviously going to be tighter at these qualifying schools than they are on TV in the big events or at some of these exhibition events (Legends for example) because the crowds/promoters want to see bigger breaks etc., I also think this suits the more flambouyant players when it gets to the tv stage which is a good thing.
The professional game bears actually little resembelance to the game most of the rest of the world plays on these rubbish tables in your local club, as the cloth is thinner, the heated bed on the slate makes it run faster, the cushions are steel blocked and responsive, the pockets cut like waterfalls and they (pro players) dont need to hit the ball as hard and so gaining position making a cannon and spliting the reds is much easier than on your local club table and therefore more breaks are made more frequently as a result. That said they (pro players) do have tremendous skill and make it look ridiculously easy.

I also think this is the reason that it takes time and is so difficult for am players to adapt to the change in conditions when competing on the tour, although new academies like the ones recently built will help these young players adapt more easily.

[Acrowot]

A very good post 1blonde, thank you.

[1blonde]

A very good post 1blonde, thank you.

oooo compliments, thank-you, nice to be appreciated.
By the way that snooker cue of your is beautiful. Probably worth more than the bike. (lol)

[blinky88]

The Australian Open is a televised world ranking even, hardly a qualifying school.

[hsn]

Hi Terry
It may seem out of the topic in question but I have something to ask you about. As you have mentioned that you have No. 10 cloth fitted on your table at home please let me know is it worth it? I have heard that it wears very quickly is it true? How long will it last if I played for a couple of hours every day? I've also heard that it laxes after a few days play and needs re-stretching? I have got a table at home currently fitted with Heinsworth cloth but I am planning to replace with something lightning fast. Please guide me on the difference and worth of the No. 10 and the 6811 Tournament/Gold 30 oz. What do you advise me based on your vast experience?
Thank you in advance
Hsn.

Just to add my 2 cents worth as I just had 2 weeks at the Southwest Snooker Academy. I have a BCE Westbury at home which I thought was set to the templates used on the Riley pro tables but I can tell you the Star tables at the academy are a lot tighter.

However, there is one slight difference between the tables at the Academy and those on TV and that is the cloths are always brand new on the TV tables and are replaced through the tournament and also the spotlights in use keep the table surface quite warm. The brand new cloths are the reason some balls are able to touch the cushion just before the pocket yet still slide in.

At the Southwest Academy the cloths are not brand new (but still in pristine shape and changed frequently) so those tables will play tighter than those on TV. I can guarantee that as I practiced on them for 13 days.

I did notice a slight difference between the 2 tables I used, and one was definitely harder than the other and I think that is just down to human error from the table fitter as he can't be expected to get each and every table perfectly to template all the time.

I believe the Star tables in use for the pros on TV are tight enough and don't need any tinkering. Potting a ball down the cushion is still tough and in fact tougher than on my table at home even though I have the #10 cloth fitted now

Terry



Terry

[krazen]

I've recently spoken to Pete Godwin, senior table fitter working all European WPBSA events. He's told me that they use same pocket templates since 1992. Pete has them patented and they use it at professional tournaments all over the world.