1/2ball, 3/4ball..how do you know?

[KulaBoccaSaysSo]

Hi
I am a little confused with how to judge if a ball is a 1/2, 1/4, 3/4.
I´ve looked at instruction videos, read books and they all tell you to memorise these angles. The problem is that I cannot judge if a ball is a half ball or not, I play on feel and memory instead.

Is it very important to know when an object ball is half or three quarter? and is there an easy way of judge it (more than , the white is covering half the object ball, I know that but it does not help me to see anyway..)?

Anyone using this method always thinking "half ball" "quarter ball" "three quarter ball" when playing shots?
or is it a method that is only useful when you are new to snooker?

[stjimmy18-1991]

to be honest i dont understand it either...im in the same boat as you!! any thoughts on this?

[Semih_Sayginer]

if youve not read this thread http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...ead.php?t=9687 then i suggest doing so as it may be of help

(if not, no harm done)

[stegorjus]

These are just terms used to approximately describe the the amount of ball hidden by the cue-ball when the shot is played. You shouldn't confuse them with the actual angle required for a certain pot. It's unlikely that a pot would be exactly half/quarter/three-quarter. The important thing is that when the cue-ball strikes the object-ball, the two balls form a direct line to the pocket.

Imagine a line from the centre of the pocket directly through the object-ball. the cue-ball should make contact at the point where the line exits the object-ball. All this half ball talk is to make it easier for viewers to visualise.

[joe2311]

this is only true when the pot is straight. how can the two balls form a direct line to the pocket when the pot is off straight ? thats where you need to hit the object ball 1/2 ball 1/4 3/4 ball to get the correct angle to pot the ball.

[stegorjus]

The point is that 'at the time of impact' the two balls are in a direct line with the pocket. This will rarely be exactly 1/4, 1/2, 3/4. Every shot will be different.

A simple way to practise this is to line up a plant, two balls touching each other, in a direct line to the pocket. No matter where the outer ball is hit, as long as it pushes the other ball, it will move it directly toward the pocket. That's because the two balls forming the plant were in-line to the pocket.

Now remove the outer ball from the plant. The trick is to make your cue-ball hit the remaining object ball exactly where the second ball was. If it hits at that same position, then the pot will be on target.

If you still have the technology, and you if can find it, then the Jack Karnhem VHS is still probably the best instruction for a beginner. I see there is only one on Amazon just now.

[poolqjunkie]

Well, although it is true that there are an infinite number of shots on the table, there are only a limited number of angles. That is the essence of the concept of 1/2, 3/4, 1/4...etc--once you recognize the angles, then you will know where to aim regardless of where the ball may lie. This simplifies the aiming procedure.

Using only 1/2, 3/4, 1/4 and fine cut might be simplifying matter a bit too much. But if you can divide the ball into 8/8(full ball), 7/8, 6/8(3/4), 5/8, 4/8(1/2), 3/8, 2/8(1/4), 1/8, and very fine cut, then you should not miss too many shots unless you mis-judge the angle. As you can see, there are ony about 9 basic angles with this system. But then, you may need to aim a bit thinner or thicker depending on the angles, but only by a hair or so on each side.

Since each shot would call for a special aiming point, and that point is more or less constant (i.e. 1/2 ball will be lining up the edge to the center...etc), once you make correct judgement of what angle it is, then you can just aim at the corresponding point for that particular angle, without spending too much time on looking for the contact point, or the ghost ball.

In order to make correct accessment of the angles, one exercise I really like is to pot the black, pink, and blue off its spot.

I would start with the black on the spot, and pot all 15 reds into the pocket lining them up straight. I will only concentrate on correct sighting on the center of the object ball and the cue ball. This is my 8/8 (full ball). I will then move the white ball about a chalk's width over to the right, and try to pot again 15 balls of this new angle into the pocket. I will do this on both sides of the black. If I miss a lot of shots with one angle, then I will do it again, until I can pot all 15 balls. I then move over another chalk's width and repeat until I reach the fine cut angle.

The benefit of this is that you know everytime you move your white over, your aiming point/area/line will shift by about same amount. And you will see the angles starting to increase. (i.e. you will be potting full ball, then 7/8 ball, then 3/4 ball, and so on in order). This trains your eye to sight the proper aiming point for each angle, and to recognize the angles. Since you are only dealing with one angle at a time, you can focus on recognizing that angle, and its corresponding aiming point. Once you are used to this, you will know exactly where to aim once you recognize the angle.

You can then repeat this for the pink in the middle pockets, and the corners. Then the blue into the middle and the corners. You should start to see that the angles are the same even though the positions of the balls on the tables are different. The cushion sometimes will affect your sighting forming an illusion; nevetheless, if you keep training your eyes to sight properly, you should start to see the angles being the same regardless.

I used to do this for a few hours everyday. It is very boring, and takes a lot of patience and dedication. I suggest you take a break after may be an hour or so.

I am not sure if there are better methods out there, but this works for me.

Now I still do this, but only pot 5 balls for each angle. If I start missing a certain angle, then I will pot 15 balls or whatever it takes to get that angle back into my memory.

Potting is memory, so you need to build up your databank(memory) in order to have something to retrieve when you need to. I believe it is more effective for the brain to register one angle at a time than too may angles at one time.

After you have done it for a while, then you can test your memory by trying to see how many black you can pot in a row, and the same for the blue, pink and may be even the baulk colors. If you tend to miss a particular angle, then you should set that up and practise that angle until you are confident in potting that ball.

Other than learning an aiming system, I would suggest that you work on sighting the balls properly especially on the longer pots. For example, a 3/4 ball may look quite simple when it is a couple feets away, but if the object ball is next to the cushion by the black, and the cue ball is below the baulk line, you still need to see that ball as a 3/4 and aim accordingly. This takes practise on sighting.

I am sure there are better player and better exercise out there. But this is what I do.

[KulaBoccaSaysSo]

I actually have the Karnhem VHS. It is very instructive and it covers the thing with half ball 3/4ball, I´ve watched it a several times through the yrs and it has been helpful.
I think I have got great answers from all of you, thanks. I guess it was a little bit as I thought, you do not have to think so much about if a ball is a 3/4ball etc when you play the shot as every shot is different.
I was just wondering if you, when approaching a shot automaticly was thinking, "this is a half ball, 3/4 ball.." apperently not?

[poolqjunkie]

I was just wondering if you, when approaching a shot automaticly was thinking, "this is a half ball, 3/4 ball.." apperently not?

I actually do in a way. I will see exactly where I am supposed to strike the object ball when I look at the shot. If I cannot see it, then I will go over and look. This happens sometimes on thinner cuts. The whole idea of this aiming method is to train your eyes to recognize the angles, and to know that NOT every shot is different--there are only a limited number of angles on the table.

Potting is memory, and if you do not build up your memory through systemtic practise, then it is hard for you to see and recognize the angle. Also, you need to reinforce your memory or else you may forget.

[KulaBoccaSaysSo]

Thanks poolqjunkie for an excellent reply and for taking time to explain so well!!
The exercice you described I will definetly try out. I have done similar exercises but not with moving the white the same distance every time and also doing the same with other balls as blue or pink, mostly with the black.
Using the chalk will definetely help to be more consistent and to learn and memorise the angles and as you say, angles are the same all over the table. I think it´s time now to build up some confidence with pots all over the table and start to memorise the angles..

[poolqjunkie]

Thanks poolqjunkie for an excellent reply and for taking time to explain so well!!
The exercice you described I will definetly try out. I have done similar exercises but not with moving the white the same distance every time and also doing the same with other balls as blue or pink, mostly with the black.
Using the chalk will definetely help to be more consistent and to learn and memorise the angles and as you say, angles are the same all over the table. I think it´s time now to build up some confidence with pots all over the table and start to memorise the angles..

I started practising only on the black, too. Once I started doing the same thing for the pink in the middle I can see that the middle pocket angles are the same as the corner pocket angles. It is knd of strange but I started to pot a lot more balls into the middle pockets once I started to look at the shots the same way as a pot into the corner.

I also practise potting the black with the cue ball close to the cushion. These shots are very useful in break building. I used to have problem somehow with the cushion shot when I could not see the angle being the same, even though the cue ball was only moved back a couple inches from where I could put my hands on the table. So, I would practise the same angle, but move the cue ball back and forth, in order feel comfortable with varies distance between the balls. I think my eyes were playing tricks on me.

[KulaBoccaSaysSo]

That middle pocket can be very tricky sometimes..
Learning that the angles is actually the same as for the corner pocket will problably take some pressure out of these shots. Thanks again for the tip, more to practice, great!

I have practiced some cushion shots lately and been more successful with them as I got more resolute with them almost making a snappy shot (with follow thru of course). I mean not beeing so smoothe and relaxed as with some other shots.
I have also seen myself hitting the object ball too thick more often than thin when playing of the cushion maybe that is the eyes playing tricks. Practising angles on those shots will defenitely help too.

[poolqjunkie]

That middle pocket can be very tricky sometimes..
Learning that the angles is actually the same as for the corner pocket will problably take some pressure out of these shots. Thanks again for the tip, more to practice, great!

I have practiced some cushion shots lately and been more successful with them as I got more resolute with them almost making a snappy shot (with follow thru of course). I mean not beeing so smoothe and relaxed as with some other shots.
I have also seen myself hitting the object ball too thick more often than thin when playing of the cushion maybe that is the eyes playing tricks. Practising angles on those shots will defenitely help too.

I sometimes have problem with cushion shot because I am not hitting the center; other times, I would hit exactly where I aim but the ball wont go in, so i know I have made a mistake on my angle judgement.

Anyway, going back to your question if a player would say "this is a 3/4 ball..." when he looks at a shot. I am not sure about others, but I do notice Steve Davis does a lot of that when he commentates. He would say something like, "he is now going to pot the black, which is about a 3/4 ball shot, to canon into the red to the left of the pack..." In his instrutional video, he talks about aiming the shot as a 1/2 ball and such, and then for angles in between the four basic, he said he would look at an angle and say to himself it is a thick 1/2 or a thin 3/4 or somthing like that. He used the blue ball to illustrate the four basic angles when he placed four cue ball at various positions.

When I read John spencer's book, in the final chapter when he disected his century break, he also used the term 1/2, 3/4 and so on very frenquently.

I think, if you use this system, you will say to yourself this is a 3/4 ball when you see one, but only on a subconsicous level, once you are familiar with the angles. Since I cannot speak for everyone else and I am not sure how other players aim, so I have to remind you that I could be wrong. I am just telling you what i think is happening.

[bongo]

To find the right angles, for example, finding is a ball is half ball or three quarter ball is not too difficult.

What you do is this, If you had a pot and the white was on the brown and a red on the blue spot and you wanted to pot it into the top right pocket. Imagine another red ball touching the red on the blue spot, this extra red must be in line with the centre of the pocket (or where in the pocket you intend to pot this ball on the blue spot), we shall say that you intend to pot the ball on the blue spot into the centre of the pocket. The extra ball touching the first red ball is in line with the centre of the pocket, so that is a plant.

Then, looking from where the white is, just as if you were going to play the shot, see how much of the first red is being covered by the second red.

If half of the first red is being covered, so the centre vertical line of the second red is in line with the extreme edge on the right side on this situation, it is a half ball.

If the centre vertical line (cvl) is half way between the extreme edge and cvl of the first red, then it is a three quarter ball.

For quarter ball, the half way between centre and ex. edge is on the extreme edge of the first ball.


This may sound complicated, but basically, its how much of the object ball is to be covered on the point of contact between the two ball, cue ball and object ball, when potting the ball, I went into detail to try and help you understand it more.

As a shot will hardly ever be exactly half ball, there is no need to work out if it is exactly half ball (1/2 ball), so the most important objective is to find the right point on the object ball.

The terminology is intended to describe shots.

Also, instead of buying the very good Jack Karnehm video, its all on YouTube, www.youtube.com/user/princesagitarious, a snooker fan, has uploaded it.

[bongo]

I apologise if I have repeated what poolqjunkie had said!