How do I start a Snooker ladder?

[thelongbomber]

Have you attempted or successfully started a Snooker ladder in your city? Its done commonly in other sports, but I am very interested in starting one in my city. Can anyone offer suggestions about how I can start one? Specifically what the rules of the ladder should be? I have access to the local billiards association so I can generate interest with their help.


I got these rules online from some other site (see link below)
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* Starting positions will be derived randomly (Names will be pulled from a hat).
* Any newcomers to the ladder after the competition has started will be placed at the bottom.
* The competition will start as soon as the randomly derived ladder is created
* All matches will be best of three frames.
* All matches will follow the rules that will be on the wall in the Snooker Room and on the website.
* A contestant can challenge (challenger) another contestant (defender) who is up to three places above them.
* Matches must be completed one week after the challenge is made. If the challenge is not accepted within two days by the defender then the defender will forfeit the match.
* If the challenger wins, they move above the defender. If the defender wins nothing happens.
* Challenges must be made by email.
* If you are part of an unresolved challenge you may not challenge somebody else.
* It is the responsibility of the challenger that on completion of the match that the result is emailed to the ladder administrator and a carbon copy of the same email sent to their opponent.
* Any disputes in the emailed results must be brought to the attention of the ladder administrator within 3 days of the results being published.
* The Ladder administrator will update the website after receiving any results.
* High breaks during ladder matches can also be reported and will be published on the website. There may be a prize for the highest break.
* These rules are subject to change - they will change in response to problems that arise.

I need advise on...
===============
- how do I get players involved?
- should there be a membership fee?
- should there be a ladder administrator?
- whats the forfeit process and how do I get people to commit?
- should a ladder member be required to score and monitor the match?
- what about fraud?
- what about escalating issues like cheating and unsportsmanlike conduct?
- should I build the site and start signing members up and then officially launch later on? Was thinking January 1st 2009
- should there be prizes or a tournament for the top 10?
- how can I get funding and corporate sponsorship? If anyone has written a business case, that would be helpful



More links and reading
=================
http://www.dur.ac.uk/grey.jcr/index....of_the_ladder/
http://www.hotscripts.com/search?q=l...mageField.y=14

[Robert602]

Not snooker, but I'm involved in running our university pool club. We actually use a pyramid rather than a traditional ladder and it works well. The people nearer the bottom unsurprisingly tend to be less interested but in a pyramid format they receive fewer challenges, which suits them and causes less hassle for the administrator. At the same time it allows good players to join at the bottom and still move up very quickly. On a linear ladder they might be put off from joining at the bottom, having to organise and play a lot of matches against players who can't give them an enjoyable game.

- how do I get players involved?
On our university ladder we offer incentives like places in various league teams and seeding/entry into tournaments. Even for the top players (whose entry into those teams/tournaments is guaranteed anyway) the ladder is still popular, as a matter of pride and to give meaning to matches that might otherwise be just for practice. I also run a similar ladder for my college (a small part of the university) and just by sticking an empty pyramid up above the table and allowing people to write their own names in we got about 20 players in a couple of days. I'd say the most important thing is to maintain a printed copy of the ladder visible in the club(s), and if you can include a list of results so that there's visible activity. Bottom line is that people enjoy the competition, if they see the opportunity they'll sign up.

- should there be a membership fee?
- should there be prizes or a tournament for the top 10?
- how can I get funding and corporate sponsorship? If anyone has written a business case, that would be helpful
We don't charge or have sponsors, the work needed to administrate doesn't justify it on its own, but end of season prizes for the top places might be worth funding if you're having trouble getting the interest. The only danger with fees is discouraging players who don't think they're good enough for prizes (even when they are). Our local snooker and pool league gets funding from a taxi firm, which is a pretty good relationship as the club is a little way out of town (it helps that the firm's owner is a player himself).

- should there be a ladder administrator?
I'd say so. You need someone to be the final word on forfeits/walkovers, or anything else that might come up, as well as someone to maintain the ladder itself.

- whats the forfeit process and how do I get people to commit?
We have 'challenges to be answered within 5 days, played within 10 (except by mutual agreement'. It's up to the challenger whether he requests a walkover from the administrator or just challenges someone else instead, but the administrator shouldn't accept any excuses. The administrator can decide to remove someone from the ladder if they do this repeatedly. As long as it's properly enforced I don't see why it should be a problem.

- should a ladder member be required to score and monitor the match?
We've never had a disagreement over score that I know of, I don't think that should be necessary.

- what about fraud?
- what about escalating issues like cheating and unsportsmanlike conduct?
Never been a problem for us, snooker has a very sporting reputation and fortunately that seems to be self perpetuating. I doubt you'll have more than one or two people in a season guilty of cheating, if they're accused a few times warn them and then remove them from the ladder.

- should I build the site and start signing members up and then officially launch later on? Was thinking January 1st 2009
We had a tournament to decide the initial positions (we had the numbers for a knockout competition but a short league would work for a few people), after that anyone new would be added to the bottom. If that's not feasible then I think it's better not to keep people waiting, and an active small ladder is a better advertisement for itself than a promise.

Our pool club ladder and rules are here: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cupc/uniladder.php Might give you some ideas. If you decide to go with a pyramid feel free to copy the website code off there too, and I could also get you a copy of the PHP source although I'm not sure to what extent it's automated.

Hope that helps.

[thelongbomber]

This is great info Robert. Thanks so much. I would love to get the php yes. Can the programmer put it on google code? http://code.google.com/hosting/

[cascaders]

I'm wondering if the ladder web site was ever built based on the code base from CUPC. I am looking into a ladder format for our small club and am looking for ideas and advice.

[misspentoldage]

Excellent advice here. I'm about to start a ladder at my club and I'm wondering if anyone has tips for the far end of the process. What I mean is that by the end of the year I'm hoping to give (sponsored) trophies for ladder champion and highest break through the year. However 1) is it right that the person at the top of the ladder at the time should get the trophy, or should it be, say, the aggregated top positions at the end of each month? I'm thinking, for example, of a possible case where someone may have fought off all challenges all year, then just before the award deadline he gets knocked off his perch temporarily. Fair or not? 2) Is there a good way of creating a climax for the snooker ladder to coincide with the awards night? For example, with a snooker tournament you would have a finals night, so is there an equivalent for a snooker ladder? All advice would be gratefully received. The ladder hasn't started yet, but I'd like to cross the ts and dot the is before it starts.

[misspentoldage]

In answer to my own question about creating a climax for the snooker ladder to coincide with the awards night, I've decided to run what I'm calling a Last Legs Day in the afternoon and evening, leading to the presentation. On that day the player on Rung 5 will play Rung 4; the winner plays Rung 3; the winner plays Rung 2; and the winner plays Rung 1. This means that the top five players are all in with a chance of becoming overall Snooker Ladder Champion, though it also means that the Rung 5 player would have a lot more to do if he is to win than the Rung 1 player, which is as it should be. There will also be an award for the Best Break thoughout the season of the ladder, so even players further down the ladder have a chance of winning something almost to the end.

I've been grateful for the rules suggested by the posts above and the links given, and have made use of them in formulating the rules of our ladder. One addition I've made, to encourage participation, is that each player's matches will be reviewed at the end of each calendar month and anyone who has not played a single match during that month will be automatically demoted by one rung.

[Shockerz]

In answer to my own question about creating a climax for the snooker ladder to coincide with the awards night, I've decided to run what I'm calling a Last Legs Day in the afternoon and evening, leading to the presentation. On that day the player on Rung 5 will play Rung 4; the winner plays Rung 3; the winner plays Rung 2; and the winner plays Rung 1. This means that the top five players are all in with a chance of becoming overall Snooker Ladder Champion, though it also means that the Rung 5 player would have a lot more to do if he is to win than the Rung 1 player, which is as it should be. There will also be an award for the Best Break thoughout the season of the ladder, so even players further down the ladder have a chance of winning something almost to the end.

I've been grateful for the rules suggested by the posts above and the links given, and have made use of them in formulating the rules of our ladder. One addition I've made, to encourage participation, is that each player's matches will be reviewed at the end of each calendar month and anyone who has not played a single match during that month will be automatically demoted by one rung.

I am running a snooker ladder at the moment through the summer and am looking for a way to wrap it up fairly just before the league starts in September.

I quite like the format above but wondered if anyone one else is running one and has a different way to conclude the ladder?

[bartito]

Interesting stuff. I like the idea of a pyramid ladder...but i guess this setup needs a lot of players.

Also 1 thing I'm thinking about....can you introduce a handicap system based on the ranking on the ladder and not on the player? The higher you get on the ladder the lower your handicap will become.

Can you also introduce a maximum on how many times you can challenge other players?

[Shockerz]

Interesting stuff. I like the idea of a pyramid ladder...but i guess this setup needs a lot of players.

Also 1 thing I'm thinking about....can you introduce a handicap system based on the ranking on the ladder and not on the player? The higher you get on the ladder the lower your handicap will become.

Can you also introduce a maximum on how many times you can challenge other players?

I guess you can try anything; it'd be interesting hwo you would do handicaps on the ladder dependent on position.

I think we've found a good balance for us for the first year and it now seems to be going well even though we have been introducing the additional rule here and there as we learn things.

[bartito]

I guess you can try anything; it'd be interesting hwo you would do handicaps on the ladder dependent on position.

I think we've found a good balance for us for the first year and it now seems to be going well even though we have been introducing the additional rule here and there as we learn things.

our problem regarding handicap is :
we base the handicap system on last year performance. Some players improve a lot during the season so their handicap is not representing their level anymore.
Giving new people a handicap is also tricky. To low and everyone start to complain. To high and the player becomes frustrated and back out.

I play with the idea to give the player a handicap depending on the position in the ladder. If they play well and move up on the ladder, their handicap will drop.

[Shockerz]

We're not using a handicap system, it's just a ladder based on wins for all standard to join (or not).

I guess you could use split if you have enough players and run a scratch (premier) division and handicap to suit all players.

That aside, you could split the time the ladder runs into blocks (2 weeks) and review as you go or alternatively handicap wins and losses. It's difficult to keep things simple which is what I have tried to do this year but we'll see!