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Spectator warns striker about to foul
About a month ago during city league play consisting of a match of 4 pairs against 4 other pairs for 16 frames, one player absentmindedly approached the table as striker and reached for the cueball to place it in the D... this would have been a foul...... A non-playing team-mate ( spectator) called out to "not touch it" thus preventing a foul. Is this warning confused not a foul? And if it is, then the foul must be the value of the "ball on", is it not? Comments please.
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Cant really see how it can be called a foul , although the player was going to touch the ball but he didnt , i dont think the reason is relevant . who knows if he would have changed his mind . The person who shouted out was probably removed from the venue was he not , Never heard of anything like this happening before . Just my view pheraps someone can give a definitive answer . -
The Rules help to cover this situation in Section 5.1(a).
It states that the referee shall be the sole judge of fair play.
Rule 3.17(e) states that, in a pairs game, it is a foul if the players of one team confer once one of them is the striker (i.e at the table).
I would extend this rule using Rules 5.1(a)(ii).
It states that the referee shall be free to make a decision in the interests of fair play for any situation not covered adequately by Rule.
The value of the foul is the ball on.Some days I'm the statue.
Some days I'm the pigeon.
Today is a statue kind of day.Comment
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I'd agree with you, Alan.Originally Posted by APK View Post
I believe John Street writes in his/Peter Rook's book that the Rule about conferring (i.e. doubles) could certainly be extended to cover teammates when playing as part of a team event, even if the frames are being played 'singles'.Comment
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Clarification from Statman
Hi,
Your comment re: Street's book that appears to compare conferring with one's doubles partner with an intervention/warning from a team-mate after the striker has approached the table (because he is reaching for the cue-ball) is somewhat confusing to me. Is it a foul or not if a "non-participant" in a frame "coaches" or "advises" a player while a frame is in progress?
Thank you in advance, Statman, for your assistance.
Your Snooker Forum is terrific.
TriggerBComment
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Well it's an interesting one. I believe, on the pro circuit, coaching advice is banned between frames, say if a player leaves to go to the toilet. As for it happening in a match, if a memeber of the audience (let's say) shouts out "Take the green" when a player has overlooked the green as an obvious shot, then I don't think there is much you can do about it.Originally Posted by triggerb View Post
Even if it's someone known to have a connection with the player, such as his coach, you may not be able to do much other than ban him from the room.
But the rules do strictly speak of partners conferring being a foul and I think that can logically be extended to teammates in a match where all those people are playing at some point. (Indeed, when the referee is calling the scores, he would call "Team name" rather than "Player name". In the Nations Cup, the call was not "Foul, Steve Davis 56, Dennis Taylor 4" but "Foul, England 56, Ireland 4".)
The reason I don't think that it can be stretched to non-playing associates is that the rule infers "Playing partners", which I don't think covers non-players. Pairs partners might have a coach, too.Not mine. Ours.Your Snooker Forum is terrific.Comment
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If a spectator was to call out, I would warn him that further instances would result in him being removed from the arena.
I consider this to be in the interest of fair play as per Rule Section 5.Some days I'm the statue.
Some days I'm the pigeon.
Today is a statue kind of day.Comment
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Based on the above, rule clarification, when the player (striker) begins to approach the table, it is against the rules for any coaching to be implemented or implied. On the grounds of fair play, I would have awarded the foul.
I have in the past (whilst refereeing) called a foul on a teammate for playing the yellow instead of the final red (it was pretty well hidden, and he just didn't think), and also on someone I played in one team with, but was against on the night, for potting the green instead of the yellow. On both occasions I knew what they were doing/about to do, but it is not my place (or anyone elses) to tell them to play a different shot.
DeanIf you want to play the pink, but you're hampered by the red, you could always try to play the brown!
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I have often warned members of teams NOT to call out a foul or advise when their player is at the table. As a referee in a local league, you get to know which teams are the worst offenders. In this case I tend to issue a gentle reminder at the start for people not to call out.
However, in a county or national tournament, if it happens, there is not much you can do except warn the offender that if it happens again, that person will be asked to leave.
In doubles, before the match starts, I always remind players that they cannot speak to eachother when their partner is at the table.You are only the best on the day you win.Comment
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