Drop the Elbow to Drop the Ball?

[Sidd]

Hello everyone. Posting after a long time. I have been practicing lately with the new grip and concentrating on my follow through. In solo practice, which I have increased to an hour daily, last time I went in I did make a nice decent 73 break and was SURPRISED as well as happy on that achievement. Similarly, in the match my potting seems to be improving now I have noticed my usual opponents have started playing more safety against me and that is a positive sign. They now dont like to give me open chances in the black-pink area and do have the element of safety in mind while playing me; in other words they have started taking me much more seriously than before No considerable breaks yet but potting consistency and winning frequency on the rise !!!


OK the reason I am putting this post is to concern about the elbow drop. I know there has been a lot said about it and I have been going through that as well however I need to ask something simple for me to work out. I used to think that I ave a natural elbow drop but then while practicing I realised that I do not have it. So this area is now under my observation and I would like to work on it.


Almost all pros drop the elbow and hence it is an important thing to do to keep the cue in the same plane, I can see that now. I also dropped the elbow on some shots in practice and noticed better potting. The following is what I need to know to carry on in developing a decent elbow drop...


1. Is the elbow drop really really necessary? If yes, why and what are the advantages?
2. When does one drop the elbow exactly? At the time of strike or right after it or near to the completion of follow through?
3. With which muscle does it happen. I noticed when I try to do that I use my shoulder muscle to drop it. Is that correct... if not, how to go about it then?
4. I am learning to drop the elbow in delivery. Is it important to drop it in backswing too? Is yes, how to develop this coordination as it is seeming very difficult to achieve...?

Please help on the above 4 points...!!!

[pottr]

Can someone explain to me what the term 'elbow drop' within the cue action actually is?

I genuinely don't know. I probably do it already.

[nrage]

Can someone explain to me what the term 'elbow drop' within the cue action actually is?

I genuinely don't know. I probably do it already.

See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BYMV...2DC86DA5A1A7EA

The first shot he plays, watch the elbow closely.

At the back of the backswing it dips slightly - most people do this on a full backswing because it's generally impossible to pull the cue back all the way without it.

At the end of the delivery, after contact with the white, the elbow drops down to almost armpit level. The theory is that the elbow drop helps keep cue speed up during contact with the white.

If you were to attempt to play without any drop you would theoretically:
1. limit your backswing length and therefore maximum power.
2. "stop" on your shots, or not "go through the ball" well, or ... there are many sayings with essentially refer to timing or cue speed through the ball.

So, to reply to the OP: You should not worry consciously about elbow drop unless you find you are lacking cue power. How many lengths of the table can you manage with a fair degree of accuracy (a test of total power)? What sort of screw distance can you achieve i.e. can you screw a long blue back to baulk? (I sure as hell can't).

[pottr]

I really need to post a clip of myself playing. I have no idea about any of this technique and how it should look.

I tend not to worry about it other than making sure my stance is firm and the cue feels fluid.

[nrage]

I really need to post a clip of myself playing. I have no idea about any of this technique and how it should look.

I tend not to worry about it other than making sure my stance is firm and the cue feels fluid.

Probably the right call, might be interesting to see what you're doing, but unless you're having trouble with screw back distance etc don't change anything (IIRC you're playing to a fairly high standard currently).

[Phil Carr]

How to follow through - elbow and forearm technique

Ok, this is what I have found. The 'elbow drop' (or 'fore-arm follow through') HAS to occur if you are playing anything other than a 'touch shot'. ANY shot with any length of follow through to it necessitates that the cue maintains a HORIZONTAL plane congruent with the bed of the table. Owing to the design of the human body, the forearm cannot 'telescope' (extend in a straight line). This means that it acts like a pendulum of a clock from the elbow right through to the hand and describes an 'arc' in movement. If you were to keep the elbow rigid (i.e. non moving) and try to play each shot, you would see and feel the height of the cue RAISED up at the 'butt' end as you completed the shot, with the opposite result at the tip end (as the bridge is a fulcrum for the cue), namely the tip would lower. Therefore some compensation has to be made to ensure the cue (the butt and the tip) goes through the shot on a STRAIGHT LINE. One does this by a NATURAL (i.e. not forced) dropping of the elbow to allow the forearm to pursue the line along the bed of the table, or rather the hand as the arm will follow the hand obviously. It's a weird feeling to get used to as it's not a natural movement but if you liken the movement to throwing a dart (which must also be in a straight line - unless you're Kerry Morgan!), throwing a dart is like a snooker cueing action IN REVERSE or rather INVERSE. This time the elbow moves UPWARDS as the hand and wrist follow the dart.
It's all about keeping the cue horizontal as this is how you will get the smoothest stroke and the most power, not to mention control.
Practice this technique in SLOW (and I mean VERY SLOW) motion. Better still, get some way of videoing your action sideways on. Film yourself playing the stroke VERY slowly and then at normal tempo (including all your nuances and characteristics) and look very carefully at ALL parts of your wrist, forearm, elbow and upper arm. Hopefully you will see that your elbow and upper arm drop slightly on completion of the shot (usually past the vertical point of arm on the shot). No wonder then that the person who saw an improvement did so! You are getting the MAXIMUM power with the minimum effort with the maximum control, which, after all, is what we ALL want right? The trouble is keeping the follow through going straight through without twisting from either left to right or vice versa. This is MY problem! My arm waggles a bit on med to strong shots. This also can be helped by putting a slight pause in your action prior to the final 'push-through' AND (probably more importantly even) making sure you don't 'snatch' the shot - in other words, start slowly and build up the speed. THIS is MUCH more easily said than done. When people talk about a smooth cue action they are talking about the 'timing' of the shot, namely the perfect build-up of speed from stop to full velocity with the smoothest ACCELERATION. This is horrendously hard to achieve unless you're a natural player with great physical coordination. Some have it, some don't. Get used to it. BUT you can always improve. SLOW practice is the key. Muscle memory is a fantastic thing and you develop it by consistent repetition and that can only come with slow PRACTICE and I'm not talking just knocking balls about. You don't even NEED balls - OR A TABLE. Just your cue and a LOT of patience.
Well, good luck and here's to straight cueing!! LET YOUR ELBOW DROP NATURALLY and see the shots improve!

[Sidd]

Just to update on something, rather, shamefully. I do happen to have a natural elbow drop in my delivery. Perhaps because Terry has been coaching me to drive the grip hand through to the chest on almost all shots and hence in order to do that I have developed a natural elbow drop. Saw my cueing in front of a mirror and saw that my elbow is dropping considerably on the delivery. it doesnt drop much on the backswing but just half to one inch maybe and thats fine!

[Sidd]

Nrage:

I know that I have a nice decent elbow drop both on backswing and delivery becasue I watched myself (cueing) in front of the mirror and smiled at my foolish self to note that I have the natural elbow drop on backswing and delivery. However, when I saw your post I went in and came up with the following on the power level check exercise:

1. I can play the cue ball about 4-5 lengths with power easily.
2. I can screw the cue ball from blue to baulk with ease; piece of cake I am lucky i guess. Although it wont pot on every shot but then screw back accuracy is quite in my bag. I can pot a straight yellow in yellow pocket with screw and can easily go and place the black on that shot as well from two cushions.

then coupled with that when I saw myself in the mirror; everything made sense to me

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

nrage has it correct and now so do you apparently. The elbow drop is a natural function on both the backswing (I mean a longer backswing) and delivery. On the backswing it is normally only enough to keep the cue on the same plane and coupled with the grip releasing at the back it is only around one inch on the backswing for most players.

On the delivery is where we see some difference amongst various players. Although virtually all pros drop the elbow on delivery some will only drop perhaps 2 inches while others will drop 4 to 6 inches and it becomes apparent after watching a few of the pros the amount of elbow drop on delivery is associated with the power requirement of the shot.

Last night I was watching Stephen Lee and I'm amazed at how silky smooth his cue action is and how much power he gets into the cueball with seemingly little effort. See if you can catch the remainder of his match online and check his cue action out, it's well worth it

Terry

[Sidd]

Thanks for your feedback Terry. I have noticed that my elbow drops negligably (maybe 1 inch or so) on the backswing as you mentioned. However, on the delivery I can see my elbow dropping really really down so maybe 4-6 inches is true with me. I will keep practicing to keep it dropping down straight. I was all worried that if this is another thing I need to learn (dropping elbow) I will have to remember the coordination of another thing but luckily I have this naturally... Thank God

i will surely try to catch up on Lee's match if possible. Otherwise it will be on youtube in a few days.

Guys can someone rpovide the links good links for watching these live snooker matches online? Eurosport is not in our place so the only wat to catch some live action is online...!!!

[pottr]

sportlemon.tv

[Sidd]

sportlemon.tv

Thanks a lot Pottr.... You are a Gem...!!! Will give it a try.