Help or Advice Needed

[stebbo]

Hi fellow players.
Like alot of you ive good patches of play and bad patches of play.
My main problem is im even sighted but i play like the snooker Pro Jamie Jones.
With the cue on the far left of my face.
Have always played like this and have tried to get the cue under or near centre of chin but just feels unnatural.
Ive had coaching with limited success but the problem i find is when sighting i been told im on centre but then when down on shot where my cue is its not right with relation where my eyes are so im never confident on the majority of pots.
Has anyone got any advice on stance or sighting to try to help me as im getting more and more frustrated at playing with lack of confidence and thinking of giving up which i dont want to as i love the game soo much.
Thanks

[nrage]

I believe the brain is very clever, and can adapt to whatever you throw at it. That's what has happened with you, your brain has become adept at aiming with the cue off to the left of the eyes. Because of this, it now feels "right" to have the cue there, and putting it anywhere else will give you a sense of doubt in the aim etc.

You have 3 options as far as I can see:

1. Leave everything as it is - where your cue is may not be limiting you in any way so why change it. Everyone has bad patches, even players with the cue in the "right" place, so it's unlikely that cue position is the cause of your bad patches.

2. Go "cold turkey" - move the cue to center chin and be disciplined about playing with it here. It may take a month, or 6 months to become comfortable and confident with it here but it should eventually happen. It will go slower if you're not disciplined about it.

3. Move the cue in gradual increments - Move it 1/2 an inch right each month until you're in center chin. I am not a fan of this option because I think it will mean re-programming your brain multiple times, which will add more confusion than option #2.

Edit: If your stance is the reason for your cue position, then I suspect your stance is fairly unique, that or your body shape. I would start by checking your stance against the recommended boxer or square stance, see:
http://members.multimania.co.uk/seanbyrne35/pjnolan.pdf
and
http://www.fcsnooker.co.uk/basics/the_stance/stance.htm

[stebbo]

My stance is the square stance and im very tall and thin.
My other problem is im never sure where to stand or position myself behind the white ball.
Can anyone help as when im down on the shot my body dosent seem aligned to the shot.
I know this is basic stuff but for all the hours i practise and the results im having its very sole destroying all advice is greatly appreciated

[stebbo]

My stance is the square stance and im very tall and thin.
My other problem is im never sure where to stand or position myself behind the white ball.
Can anyone help as when im down on the shot my body dosent seem aligned to the shot.
I know this is basic stuff but for all the hours i practise and the results im having its very sole destroying all advice is greatly appreciated

[sydneygeorge]

My stance is the square stance and im very tall and thin.
My other problem is im never sure where to stand or position myself behind the white ball.
Can anyone help as when im down on the shot my body dosent seem aligned to the shot.
I know this is basic stuff but for all the hours i practise and the results im having its very sole destroying all advice is greatly appreciated

G/day,
I have been experiencing the same frustration and despair as I sense you are going through ( it has just taken me 3 years to make a 55 break ).
My first suggestions for you are:
1. Work through your pre shot routine one step at a time,I have found the advice on this forum invaluable and encouraging,remember if it was all easy then you probably would not find the game so addictive.
2. Set yourself targets ie achieving breaks of say 10,15,20 etc and be kind to yourself.
3. Keep notes on what is working for you.
4. You will find a lot of good quality advice on TSF, write it down and take your notes to your practice sessions.
Sorry gotta go and practice now.
Good Luck.

[nrage]

My stance is the square stance and im very tall and thin.
My other problem is im never sure where to stand or position myself behind the white ball.
Can anyone help as when im down on the shot my body dosent seem aligned to the shot.
I know this is basic stuff but for all the hours i practise and the results im having its very sole destroying all advice is greatly appreciated

My walk in is two steps, right foot, left foot. Where the right foot is my back foot which I place on the line of aim, on a 5-10 degree angle outside the line of aim - so the middle of my foot is actually on the line. Because of this, I stand those 2 steps back from where I need to be down on the shot. It takes a little while to learn to judge this distance, but eventually it will become natural. To learn is, start down on a shot and place a coin under both feet in the correct places, then stand back and practice walking in, onto the coins.

Once you have that you have the distance you should stand behind the white. Next is the line/position. I often walk and look from behind the object ball to the pocket and find the contact point I want. Then I walk to behind the white and line it up for a full ball contact on the object ball. With my intended contact point in mind I shift to the side until I believe I am looking down the line which will make the white hit the contact point. From here I walk in.

On the walk in, I place my right foot and lean slightly right to keep my head on the line of aim (I am trying to reduce the side to side movement of my head as I walk in). Then I place my left foot, and this time I push my hips out and lean my body over to ensure my head stays on the line.

As I am doing that with my feet, head and hips I am going the following with my cue. It starts with my grip hand on my right hip and my other hand on the cue in a comfortable position. As I place my right foot I angle the cue so that it's on my hip and pointing down the line of the shot. As I place my left foot my bridge hand is sliding down the cue into it's final position and I am forming the bridge.

The key to all of this is making sure the cue is going on the line of aim, and making sure the cue is dictating the position of bridge hand and chest contact point. Having the grip hand on the hip helps, because this hip should be on the line of aim as you place your right foot. But, as you place your left foot and go down on the shot the grip hand has to come off the hip to stay on the line of aim. Don't allow your bridge hand to push the cue off line. Don't allow your chest to push the cue off line.

The above is too much information to try and practice all at once, don't even try. I would recommend starting with one piece at a time, i.e. start with the coins and feet and get the distance right. Then practice finding the line of aim for various shots and walking in without coins. Check your distance and foot placement. Next incorporate the lean and hip movement to keep the head on the line - a front on camera shot with kinovea (free software for pc) to analyse would be ideal. Next concentrate on keeping the grip hand on the hip and the cue on the line of aim. Last phase is all of the above with your concentration on the final part of getting down and making sure the cue remains on the line of aim as the chest and chin contact happens. This process will take a few weeks of solid practice, and you probably want to break the technique practice up with just basic potting i.e. a line up of reds into any pocket.

[stebbo]

Thanks nrage and sydneygeorge. Will practise the advice you,ve have given me and let you know how im getting on in the future.
Fingers crossed i can get there

[sydneygeorge]

You will get there !!

[sydneygeorge]

My walk in is two steps, right foot, left foot. Where the right foot is my back foot which I place on the line of aim, on a 5-10 degree angle outside the line of aim - so the middle of my foot is actually on the line. Because of this, I stand those 2 steps back from where I need to be down on the shot. It takes a little while to learn to judge this distance, but eventually it will become natural. To learn is, start down on a shot and place a coin under both feet in the correct places, then stand back and practice walking in, onto the coins.

Once you have that you have the distance you should stand behind the white. Next is the line/position. I often walk and look from behind the object ball to the pocket and find the contact point I want. Then I walk to behind the white and line it up for a full ball contact on the object ball. With my intended contact point in mind I shift to the side until I believe I am looking down the line which will make the white hit the contact point. From here I walk in.

On the walk in, I place my right foot and lean slightly right to keep my head on the line of aim (I am trying to reduce the side to side movement of my head as I walk in). Then I place my left foot, and this time I push my hips out and lean my body over to ensure my head stays on the line.

As I am doing that with my feet, head and hips I am going the following with my cue. It starts with my grip hand on my right hip and my other hand on the cue in a comfortable position. As I place my right foot I angle the cue so that it's on my hip and pointing down the line of the shot. As I place my left foot my bridge hand is sliding down the cue into it's final position and I am forming the bridge.

The key to all of this is making sure the cue is going on the line of aim, and making sure the cue is dictating the position of bridge hand and chest contact point. Having the grip hand on the hip helps, because this hip should be on the line of aim as you place your right foot. But, as you place your left foot and go down on the shot the grip hand has to come off the hip to stay on the line of aim. Don't allow your bridge hand to push the cue off line. Don't allow your chest to push the cue off line.

The above is too much information to try and practice all at once, don't even try. I would recommend starting with one piece at a time, i.e. start with the coins and feet and get the distance right. Then practice finding the line of aim for various shots and walking in without coins. Check your distance and foot placement. Next incorporate the lean and hip movement to keep the head on the line - a front on camera shot with kinovea (free software for pc) to analyse would be ideal. Next concentrate on keeping the grip hand on the hip and the cue on the line of aim. Last phase is all of the above with your concentration on the final part of getting down and making sure the cue remains on the line of aim as the chest and chin contact happens. This process will take a few weeks of solid practice, and you probably want to break the technique practice up with just basic potting i.e. a line up of reds into any pocket.

That is quality advice delivered in a very generous way.
Good on you Nrage.

[vmax4steve]

Walk in to the shot, good advice, but what if there isn't sufficient room to do so. I don't know about the rest of you but in my club there is only enough room between the table, other tables and the walls around them to take my stance with the butt of my cue about a foot from the wall. There is just enough room to play but not to walk into the shot when faced with a shot that is straight across the table with the cue ball near the cushion. On angled shots I can usually only take one step, and that's the left foot (right hander) so nrage's advice would be pretty useless for me or anyone else in my club, and anyone whose aiming and stance is done that way would be lost when visiting my club or one like it.

The conditions that you learn on will define your stance, aiming and cue action. A coach can tell you what is supposed to be correct and give good practise advice but most of us will have to improvise a little a bit around it.

[nrage]

Walk in to the shot, good advice, but what if there isn't sufficient room to do so. I don't know about the rest of you but in my club there is only enough room between the table, other tables and the walls around them to take my stance with the butt of my cue about a foot from the wall. There is just enough room to play but not to walk into the shot when faced with a shot that is straight across the table with the cue ball near the cushion. On angled shots I can usually only take one step, and that's the left foot (right hander) ..

In this/your case I start with my right foot in the final position and just perform the latter half of the walk, placing my left foot only.

The key is always making sure the cue stays on the line. If you use a chest contact point you want to ensure the upper body is in the correct/typical position regardless of the feet.

If I don't even have room for the right foot; which is rare for me, but I've seen taller players who cannot place the right foot where they want because once they try to go down their butt hits the next table (usually it's a cross table shot as you describe). In this case you just do the best you can, concentrating on getting the body to the same position it would be in, if the feet were where they ought to be. It's harder, because you're unlikely to be used to it, or practiced with it, but it's the best you can do.

.. so nrage's advice would be pretty useless for me or anyone else in my club, and anyone whose aiming and stance is done that way would be lost when visiting my club or one like it.

I don't think the advice given was "useless" but as it was given as "general" advice and not aimed at specific circumstances it requires you do a bit of thinking of your own. Alternately if you want specific advice, just ask for it.

The conditions that you learn on will define your stance, aiming and cue action. A coach can tell you what is supposed to be correct and give good practise advice but most of us will have to improvise a little a bit around it.

True, once you understand the basic principle and the purpose of the actions/advice given you can and should play around with them and modify them to suit yourself and specific situations you encounter. The key is to understand what is important and why, so that your modifications retain the important aspects, and only alter the rest.