The Last, Most difficult Bit of Set-up............

[Particle Physics]

...........I'm finding is shoulder on cheek. I can do it, but it's like contortion. The bonus is that you have to twist your body round to the right, and everything pulls into line as a result. It also encourages a lower platform. The downside for me is that my head points downwards and I'm losing clear focus of the pocket on long shots. I'm probably not doing it right. Has anyone got any tips about the correct position of left shoulder (for a R handed player) and/or a video to offer some guidance? Cheers, Particle.

p.s. should the heel of the hand finish on the centre of the cue after the shot ends?

[alabadi]

...........I'm finding is shoulder on cheek. for me is that my head points downwards and I'm losing clear focus of the pocket on long pots

When u are down u are not suppose to look at the pocket, all your focus should be on hitting centre white and the Point on the OB you selected.
U may have to look at the pocket while standing and working out the angle but that's the only time. I'm sure someone will mention Stephen Hendry however as far as I know he's the only player that I am aware of who looks at the pocket while down on the shot

p.s. should the heel of the hand finish on the centre of the cue after the shot ends?

You'll find that most people would tell you that the thumb should hit the chest, well this is what I have been told by many coaches .

The shoulder thing is a bit uncomfortable to start with however if u keep doing it it will eventually be easier. I have been struggling with this. I have a bad shoulder so can't keep it up. It does help keeping the right shoulder locked for me so I keep doing it.

Good luck , this is my 2c worth, I'm sure others will have something to say too.


Alabbadi

[Particle Physics]

When u are down u are not suppose to look at the pocket, all your focus should be on hitting centre white and the Point on the OB you selected.
U may have to look at the pocket while standing and working out the angle but that's the only time. I'm sure someone will mention Stephen Hendry however as far as I know he's the only player that I am aware of who looks at the pocket while down on the shot



You'll find that most people would tell you that the thumb should hit the chest, well this is what I have been told by many coaches .

The shoulder thing is a bit uncomfortable to start with however if u keep doing it it will eventually be easier. I have been struggling with this. I have a bad shoulder so can't keep it up. It does help keeping the right shoulder locked for me so I keep doing it.

Good luck , this is my 2c worth, I'm sure others will have something to say too.


Alabbadi

Cheers dude, all input gratefully received. Yeah, when I meant I couldn't fully see the pocket in focus I was referring to the fact that when I don't do shoulder on cheek, my head is more up and I can see the whole table in focus. I know that the more the head up, the better, but his is tricky to do with shoulder on cheek, at least for me. The Hendry thing about looking at the pocket is quite interesting though, it shows he's visualising the pot in the most potent way imaginable, literally joining up the dots with his eyes and mind. Visualisation is important at snooker, as the great Alex Higgins said.

When you say keeping the right shoulder locked, do you mean you are left handed?

[alabadi]

No i am right handed, what i mean is when you turn you cheek into the shoulder, it helps to lower yourself and this in turn keeps the right shoulder high and this helps me lock it in place.

one of the problems i have had in the past and maybe i still sometimes, the cueing arm drops too early so turning the head into the cheek helps locking it in place and the only movement then is from the elbow, it takes a lot of discipline and can be uncomfortable to start with, but once you get use to it it can keep the back arm on line better.

hope this helps

Alabbadi

[Particle Physics]

No i am right handed, what i mean is when you turn you cheek into the shoulder, it helps to lower yourself and this in turn keeps the right shoulder high and this helps me lock it in place.

one of the problems i have had in the past and maybe i still sometimes, the cueing arm drops too early so turning the head into the cheek helps locking it in place and the only movement then is from the elbow, it takes a lot of discipline and can be uncomfortable to start with, but once you get use to it it can keep the back arm on line better.

hope this helps

Alabbadi

Hi dude, when you say you are locking your right shoulder into place, are you actually freezing it from moving somehow? I find (as a newish player) that movement is a real problem, including using my right shoulder/upper arm to give the shot more power, which in actual fact, leads to less intended spin. So I'd love to be able to get to a point where just the fingers and forearm are moving, except when elbow drop is required for deep spin. Are you also using bent elbow on the bridge arm? I'm finding straight arm and shoulder on cheek even more taxing. Straight arm seems to be the most accurate for long potting, but it is very tiring.

[Terry Davidson]

Gentlemen:

Whilst having this discussion, please remember the FIRST RULE of the snooker technique, and that is KEEP IT COMFORTABLE!!!, or in other words do not introduce discomfort into the set-up.

To answer this question, get the left ARMPIT down as far as you can by bending the left leg a touch more or also spreading the feet a touch more. This will have the opposite effect on the right shoulder and (hopefully) keep it up and out of the delivery until the very end.

The bridge arm should be as straight as possible but not perfectly straight as advocated in Joe Davis' book where he said 'thrust out straight and locked', although for some players, especially those under 6ft tall this works.

In addition, the back of the thumb on the grip hand should 'drive' into the chest on EVERY shot with the elbow dropping depending on the power of the shot (the elbow dropping means you will be using the larger shoulder muscle).

If your shoulder muscle is getting into the delivery early, then you did not use a long enough backswing for the power required for that particular shot and in order to get than power with the shorter backswing you unconciously brought into play the more powerful shoulder muscle. Power in a shot comes from 2 factors, the most important of course is acceleration but that is easier achieved (and a lot more smooth to boot) if you have a longer backswing on shots over medium pace

Terry

[Manu147]

The bridge arm can have a slight bend or for some players a more noticeable one, i disagree with terry on the point as straight as possibly, this can lead to forcing a player away from the shot,most of the top players have the bent arm to various extents as this helps move into shot and therefore the weight is slightly forward on the shot without being too cramp. So i suggest you give various degrees of bending a go to get what suits YOUR body as everybody is different.

[Siz]

The Last, Most difficult Bit of Set-up............

I agree with Manu147.

Pushing the bridging shoulder forward rather than down can also have a beneficial effect on the cuing shoulder. Adopting this posture is quite likely to result in a bent bridge arm.

[alabadi]

Hi dude, when you say you are locking your right shoulder into place, are you actually freezing it from moving somehow?

Yeah thats the idea, if you can keep your shoulder as still as possible, i find that by lifting it as high as possible without discomfort it seems to work better.

Alabbadi

[Particle Physics]

Yeah thats the idea, if you can keep your shoulder as still as possible, i find that by lifting it as high as possible without discomfort it seems to work better.

Alabbadi

Just like Hendry then, you hero! It does make sense. I went back to straight arm bridge for a couple of weeks, but today, I got some time alone on a table in a village hall; lovely and quiet, to do some work and try bent arm alone. Shoulder touching chin, bent arm, and pulling the cue back and behind. Magically, the blues were sinking like stones in an ocean. It was wonderful. It was better potting than everyone from the club, except one who used to play for England. As crisp as a newly ironed dinner shirt. Like the pros. I'm gonna keep it up, even if it goes wrong occasionally, because I think we are on to something here dude. It will take months of getting used to though, so it could be a rocky path along the way for me.

[02aleric]

I have always sufered with putting unintentional left hand side on the cueball, i'm a decent it league player, high break 69 but i tend to miss balls i should get because when i cue badly i tend to put left hand side on the white as mentioned. I saw this topic and tried to put my left cheek as close to my left shoulder as possible, i also tried to slow the backswing down as much as possible, the difference has been amazing. I think i put the left hand side on the cue ball as i suspect i was moving the butt of the cue to my right as i pulled the cue back on the backswing, causing me to cue across the ball to the left. I've found moving my cheek and shoulder together seems to almost encourage me to bring the cue a bit more towards my body on the backswing, allowing me to cue through the ball slightly straighter than before, especially when coupled with the slower back swing. Certainly made a huge difference for me anyway!

[throtts]

I get the feeling that you guys are looking way tooo deep in to this shoulder stuff. One should go with what is comfortable.

The most important part for me is when going down make sure your in line with the shot ( my cue goes down slightly before my upper body ). The rest is all the usual stuff, grip etc etc..

[Particle Physics]

I have always sufered with putting unintentional left hand side on the cueball, i'm a decent it league player, high break 69 but i tend to miss balls i should get because when i cue badly i tend to put left hand side on the white as mentioned. I saw this topic and tried to put my left cheek as close to my left shoulder as possible, i also tried to slow the backswing down as much as possible, the difference has been amazing. I think i put the left hand side on the cue ball as i suspect i was moving the butt of the cue to my right as i pulled the cue back on the backswing, causing me to cue across the ball to the left. I've found moving my cheek and shoulder together seems to almost encourage me to bring the cue a bit more towards my body on the backswing, allowing me to cue through the ball slightly straighter than before, especially when coupled with the slower back swing. Certainly made a huge difference for me anyway!

I too suffered this, but it didn't really show up when playing pool, because the tolerances are quite broad compared to snooks. I wasn't shoulder on chin, and because of this, my body was swivelled round and so the cue arm had a tendency to move from right to left as a result. With either straight arm (shoulder next to chin) or bent arm (shoulder next to chin), the body is more in line with the shot I find, and so, the upper arm is closer to the shot line, and so the forearm is not moving off the shot line after pullback, as you rightly point out. Cue is more tucked in now, for me, and it's bang over the shoelace on the shot line. I'm also seeing the balls fuller, in the face as a result of shoulder on chin, and the angles are clearer. Before, I doubted the angles I saw before getting down and after getting down. Now, I have confidence in what my eyes are telling me.