A video with confusing comments.. seeking clarity

[Sidd]

Dear All, I am sharing with you a video from youtube in which this guy shows cue ball control and I got interested in it since cue ball control is a must know thing for break building. However, the way this guy explains things is rather confusing; particularly in the first few minutes.

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LMld...feature=fvwrel

Now the confusing things are as under:

1. He says that in order to control the cue ball he uses different points of contact on the cue ball OK correct but then he says that the amount of follow through should be altered and with that cue ball control can be mastered. Now if that is correct that what about the fact that the coaches including Terry and Nic teach i.e. same amount of distance from cue ball to bridge hand and also same amount of follow through for almost all shots where the grip thumb hits the chest. Is this true and should be practiced or not? different amount of follow through for control purposes and if that is the case then what about consistency ?

2. He uses side spin with screw to change the path of the cue ball to get a better red. Do you advise using that technique for positional play ?

==================================

I am posting after long. Was very busy lately so could not contribute much. However, I have been practicing and improving ot tending to improve. I can say that now my play is much consistent than before; still no major breaks but the potting consistency has increased... I have also noticed that developing that ideal grip for oneself is a technically difficult thing to achieve.. still working on it.

ADIOS

[pottr]

The follow through should be similar for every different shot, hence making sure you drive through to your chest.

2. He uses side spin with screw to change the path of the cue ball to get a better red. Do you advise using that technique for positional play ?

He says that's what he's doing but he's not. Each time he was a fraction off straight, meaning he could force the angle.

You can impart side on to the object ball to improve your position, but I don't know if it's possible at anything less than a steady pace... I know I'm certainly not good enough to do it if I hit the ball firmer than that.
I think if you played the shot firm the object ball wouldn't have time for the imparted spin to take anyway.

[nrage]

I would personally avoid "snooker tips" and instead watch "snooker pro tips":
http://www.youtube.com/user/neilmaxman

[Sidd]

Thanks for the responses guys. I also use snooker pro tips and know that that guy is a proper coach. However, this video just popped in today so I thought better to consult before adopting his tips. So this means that follow through should be similar on all shots for the drive and hence this guy is wrong. When seeing this I thought in my mind it seems amateur. Similarly, you guys do not recommend screw with side spin for position where cushion is not involved? he seemed to get results but then he must have had a fraction of an angle on his shots to force the angle.

[vmax4steve]

It's not confusing it's just complete bollocks.
When he's playing those allegedly straight blacks you can clearly see that the cue ball is below the line on the table that goes through the black spot into the pocket. Jeez he even puts it on then moves it off the line at one point.

SIDE AFFECTS THE PATH OF THE CUE BALL ONLY

When you put side on the cue ball you are effectively playing a swerve shot and judging the immediate throw off line of the cue ball and then the arcing of the cue ball as it travels towards the object ball. This throw and arcing varies with pace, the amount of side used, whether you have played with top, bottom or middle ball side, the speed of the table, the amount of nap on the cloth and which direction the nap is running.

This effect can be used for positional purposes but only when the effects are understood and mastered through years of trial and error.

[pottr]

Side can impart onto the object ball too vmax (I'm sure you know).

If a ball doesn't go by a fraction you can play with right hand side on the white to make the object ball deviate to the left and left hand side to make it deviate to the right.
I'm not talking more than a quarter of an inch mind, but enough to make a seemingly covered pot, pottable. Again, only close to dead weight. At the speed the guy in the video is hitting the shot, not a chance.

As vmax says, the guy's just talking complete bollocks

[pottr]

This effect can be used for positional purposes but only when the effects are understood and mastered through years of trial and error

Absolutely. I may not have the mastery of English to explain the effect, but the above comment is how I know of it.

[vmax4steve]

Side can impart onto the object ball too vmax (I'm sure you know).

If a ball doesn't go by a fraction you can play with right hand side on the white to make the object ball deviate to the left and left hand side to make it deviate to the right.
I'm not talking more than a quarter of an inch mind, but enough to make a seemingly covered pot, pottable. Again, only close to dead weight. At the speed the guy in the video is hitting the shot, not a chance.

I disagree pottr, the cue ball actually swerves around the snookering ball to enable the pot even when close in and at pocket weight. This is the swerve effect in miniature and is easier to do when bottom side is used at slow pace.

[Sidd]

Exactly... after watching it again i also noticed that while simple screw he has the cue ball behind the black whereas while putting left hand side and screwing then he puts it at a slight angle... but i wonder why he took the pains in uploading something like that. Anyway, good to have shared it, i can go back to my orthodox school of thought in terms with playing snooker

cheers

[pottr]

I mean when there is a ball snookering the red from the pocket. I have done it countless times. Try it next time you're playing.

Set up a straight pot and then put a ball in between the object ball and the pocket (leaving nothing between the white and the object ball).
When you are snookered from the pot by a fraction, you can still pot the ball by imparting side from the white to the object ball.
I guarantee it.

Like I said, try it out. If you can't do it, then I will post some sort of video to prove it.

[Manu147]

I mean when there is a ball snookering the red from the pocket. I have done it countless times. Try it next time you're playing.

Set up a straight pot and then put a ball in between the object ball and the pocket (leaving nothing between the white and the object ball).
When you are snookered from the pot by a fraction, you can still pot the ball by imparting side from the white to the object ball.
I guarantee it.

Like I said, try it out. If you can't do it, then I will post some sort of video to prove it.

Dont think ur actually transferring the side to the object ball, but the side on the white is spinning the cueball so its spinning on the cloth to connect the object ball from an off straight line, which might give impression that its transferring, think it was steve davis that said that side cant be transferred to an object ball( if my memory is right)

[pottr]

Nope, there is no mistaken impression from myself. As I said to vmax, have a go.

Line up a ball and put another ball infront of it so it won't pot by the slightest of thicknesses.

I can't understand why it seems so foreign to everyone? It's a shot I use at least once every 20 or so frames.

think it was steve davis that said that side cant be transferred to an object ball( if my memory is right)

I actually recall the commentators saying that it never used to be possible on the old thicker cloths, but on the newer cloths you can.
My grandad even told me the same thing once in the WMC and I justly proved him wrong.

Please, try it out. Then come back to me.

[Terry Davidson]

pottr:

That is a well known shot used all the time in snooker and is actually a 'swerve shot' and you are not imparting any side to the object ball, you are curling the white around the snookering ball and attacking the object ball at the BOB point which you originally couldn't see in a straight line. I tried this using a set of numbered balls and took a stripe as my object ball and used extreme side and I couldn't get any side to transfer EXCEPT if I put chalk on the contact point on the object ball. You also have to confirm you hit the exact same spot with the object ball (I put 2 balls over the middle pocket, leaving 1/8" clearance just to be sure. It took me a lot of attempts to miss those 2 damned balls too! The shot has to be absolutely straight in, otherwise the object ball will spin from the angled contact and that is the only way you can transfer spin to an object ball, and then you can hardly see it)

Side only comes into play when a cushion is involved.

At the top level of snooker (either pro or decent amateur) a player may 'cheat' the pocket by intentionally potting the ball to the side of the pocket, especially if he has an open pocket with a bit of room for error from centre-pocket. This is common and you may hear the commentators refer to it (if they even noticed). Ronnie does it more than anyone I think and for sure Hendry used to do it.

Terry

[alabadi]

Set up a straight pot and then put a ball in between the object ball and the pocket (leaving nothing between the white and the object ball).

i don't get this what do you mean by leaving nothing between white and object ball.

When you are snookered from the pot by a fraction, you can still pot the ball by imparting side from the white to the object ball. I guarantee it..

yes of course you can pot but you are not imparting any side on the OB all you are doing is swerving around the ball that is snookering you and hitting the object ball at the correct point to pot.

Alabbadi

[jrc750]

i don't get this what do you mean by leaving nothing between white and object ball.



yes of course you can pot but you are not imparting any side on the OB all you are doing is swerving around the ball that is snookering you and hitting the object ball at the correct point to pot.

Alabbadi

I think you are not understanding the position of the balls, he is NOT swerving around any ball !!! He says he is able to pot a ball that has no direct path to the pocket because of an obstructing ball, by transferring side onto the object ball which then bends around the obstructing ball and into the pocket