This is just for Les Edwards

[thelongbomber]

Hi Les. Please don't be offended, but perhaps we can all use this thread to coach you along? I saw your videos on the lineup, but the thread started getting into basic fundamentals and such and it seemed you were really struggling. The lineup really isn't a good place for you to work at right now if it's dragging you down. I urge you to work one thing at a time and please do keep posting videos showing progress. You should be able to enjoy the feeling of potting balls and the pleasure from making progress, instead of frustrating yourself.

I also advise to work backwards from the lineup towards more basic and simple drills where you feel like you are making some good progress, and then can start moving forward again. You mentioned you have the snookergym materials so start there. Each player is an individual, so needs to work on their own stage, rather than trying to compete with someone else.

Here is a video I would suggest you watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoz7f8-wRRc

Some of these things in the above video won't apply (just my opinion, but don't use the loop bridge - hard to explain right now, but it has unintended consequences in cue action), but the knowledge is very good and Dr. Dave explains it in a way that might suit you better. You can see a lot more from Dr. Dave at https://www.youtube.com/user/DrDaveBilliards

Sometimes, what one coach teaches doesn't sink in because their style may not suit you.

Also, in terms of drills, the WPBSA has a grading system (from 1 through 12) that I believe would be very useful for you. You can see videos starting at Grade 1 and ending at Grade 12 at http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/dong.html. Start doing the drills from the BOTTOM of the page at Grade 1, and post videos from EACH of them so we can provide some guidance. I have actually done some of these and it's very good for providing key feedback. Note that the lineup from the other thread isn't implemented until Grade 7, although there is a modified lineup working the middle of the table in Grade 2 that should easier to deal with. Master ONE grade at a time and reward yourself by moving to the next grade.

Level 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQMJch-ZVoQ
Level 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFYiv3_ml0
Level 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnE-SSd9XvI
Level 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85XnEwJVvQE
Level 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl_AZr1jG0I
Level 6 (part 1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMz4ReHoPYg
Level 6 (part 2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPxGJ8NRiw0
Level 7 (part 1-4): http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/dong33.html
Level 8 (all 5 parts): http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/Bronze.html
Level 9: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/dong21.html
Level 10: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/gold.html
Level 11: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/Platinum.html
Level 12: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/diamond.html

[lesedwards]

Thanks I will be checking these out.....I did post a new line up with everything slowed down. Need to really concentrated on BOB, still find myself wanting to look at the pocket just before striking the cue ball.

https://bambuser.com/v/4535423

[thelongbomber]

Thanks I will be checking these out.....I did post a new line up with everything slowed down. Need to really concentrated on BOB, still find myself wanting to look at the pocket just before striking the cue ball.

https://bambuser.com/v/4535423

Everyone will tell you NOT to look at the pocket, but one of the greatest player of all time, Stephen Hendry, was famous for looking at the pocket during his feathering. So what does that tell you? Perhaps for some that have a lot of body control, it's OK, and for others it isn't. I don't have a concise answer for it.

I don't think there is ONE acceptable recipe for any aspect of cue action and success in this game. I believe, based on our individual muscle, motor, memory controls, we can adapt and use any combination of cue action that provides the DESIRED result. Just look at Jaime Cope or Mark Allen or Shaun Murphy or Alex Higgins or Cliff Thorburne. There is a huge variation on pauses, grip, cue control, stance and more, but they all get the desired result.

That's the key, DESIRED RESULT. Regardless of what methodology you adapt, the IDEAL OUTCOME is a high rate of potting success, cue ball control, and a calm mind. Some cue actions can actually induce stress (because the body and mind are co-dependant) and cause you to buckle under pressure so cue action is far more complicated then people are led to believe. There is a deep connection between our mind and our bodies so any stress you bring to the table, will manifest itself in some way. This is why a consistent and unbreakable routine always saves you. The challenge for you right now, is to develop one that is your own. One that is custom tailored just for you. You can only do this by trying everything, and most importantly, really getting deep within yourself as to what your eyes, hand, and body are doing. What are you thinking? What works? What doesn't work? What makes sense? What feels right? You need to figure it out. All great snooker players go through this personal evolution in their game and analyze their own cue action and methodology. Stephen Hendry even said during his retirement that he tried 20+ methods for cue action and failed to find one that worked.

Don't let anyone tell you that you CANT play this game at a high level. Just look at Chris Small that had back troubles, or Bill Werbeniuk that was extremely overweight. Both of these men played the game at at world class level.

It's been said that our strength is our weakness, and that our weakness is also our strength. See if you can turn around what looks like a limitation into something that is an advantage.

[thelongbomber]

Oh, and in regards to looking at the pocket, it's GENERALLY not recommended because your body follows your mind/eye so you can end up swerving, missing, etc. One way to overcome this is to ask yourself: What can I do in pre-shot and in feathering to NEGATE the effects of my hand moving offline? See if you can come up with your own answer. I have a system that works for me. Perhaps you need more fluid feathering, perhaps a pause, perhaps better analyse of the potting angle? Figure it out. Really THINK about cue action and what makes sense to you and what can you actually create on your own that gives you the desired outcome.

Snooker is a THINKING game so you should THINK and LEARN and try to understand the true nature of every aspect of cue action. Don't just try to beat the lineup. Try to UNDERSTAND cue action itself. Experiment and learn about it from your own perspective.

One thing I notice you do a lot is aim your cue into the aiming line as you are getting down. That indicates to me you might not be properly assessing the potting angle before getting down. Try duplicating Mathew Stevens: he looks down into the pocket from behind the object ball and then goes back to the cue ball. That's just one idea. I'm not saying the way you aim is bad, but you should have figure out the aim before you get down. Don't walk in until you know this clearly visually and in your mind. You need to know the entire shot before you get down including how to strike the white, and where approx it will finish. This is crucial.

[thelongbomber]

Speaking personally, I only hit my century after changing and challenging my prior notions about cue action. I wasn't getting the desired result (cue ball control), and so changed and tried and experimented over the last 5 years to discover it. I don't look anything like the player I was when I first started playing the game. All through this experimentation, I took different ideas, but I ALWAYS thought about cue action. I paid attention to every single aspect of it. I didn't just pause, or feather, or do what was suggested, I asked WHY should I. I tried to discover for MYSELF, why a pause (or anything else) would be beneficial. I really went internally to monitor my mind, and my eyes, and my hand. I highly recommend this.

[alabadi]

that website longbommber is hilarious, i'm not sure who translated it but some of the text needs serious spell checking. the layout isn't anything to shout about either

joking aside not bad routines they are good for anyone beginning to play, maybe this is what les needs. although he does have the snookergym DVDs, which i would have thought are a good enough.

i think (and this goes for many) we try to run before we can walk. we pick up a cue the first time and within a week or so we make a 20 break and then think in a few months we will be making 50s , when it doesn't happen we start tinkering and seeking coaching and buying the latest gadgets and find out although our knowledge of the game is expanding our break building isn't.

we forget the basics and keep trying to chase the dream, eventually we realise after spending months or even years trying everything under the sun we are inthe same place we started all those years ago, and it becomes difficult to accept going back to the beginning is the answer, although in some cases that's whats needed

[lesedwards]

that website longbommber is hilarious, i'm not sure who translated it but some of the text needs serious spell checking. the layout isn't anything to shout about either

joking aside not bad routines they are good for anyone beginning to play, maybe this is what les needs. although he does have the snookergym DVDs, which i would have thought are a good enough.

i think (and this goes for many) we try to run before we can walk. we pick up a cue the first time and within a week or so we make a 20 break and then think in a few months we will be making 50s , when it doesn't happen we start tinkering and seeking coaching and buying the latest gadgets and find out although our knowledge of the game is expanding our break building isn't.

we forget the basics and keep trying to chase the dream, eventually we realise after spending months or even years trying everything under the sun we are inthe same place we started all those years ago, and it becomes difficult to accept going back to the beginning is the answer, although in some cases that's whats needed

Man you got that right. Most of the routines are exactly what is in the Snooker Gym. I am still waiting to have pockets widened. Last October I was running 20's and 30's along with my high of 43 and confidence was beaming then I bought a new table with little pockets and all of a sudden I started tinkering and quit the Snooker Gym and started getting coaching from Terry and then Cliff and it has been all down hill from there. I just did another red line up but this time closing my eyes at front pause.... I don't stress over my little pockets and talk myself out of making a shot...LOL probably by far my best line up yet. No video did not have it setup.

[thelongbomber]

One technique in expanding consciousness and awareness about how to play this game is try to duplicate pros. I found great levels of awareness when I tried to do exactly what Hendry, Ronnie, Murphy and others have done. I watched tonnes of videos in slow motion, wrote down every step they took, and then tried to duplicate it. By doing this I was actually able to get into their minds and their thought process about how they aim, strike, and play position. I constantly asked WHY rather than accepting any one methodology as gospel. I tried to glean how and why they developed the cue action. I spent a lot of time, in particular, with Ronnie and Marco's techniques, discovered flaws, imperfections, and then adapted their systems to create my own.

[alabadi]

One technique in expanding consciousness and awareness about how to play this game is try to duplicate pros. I found great levels of awareness when I tried to do exactly what Hendry, Ronnie, Murphy and others have done. I watched tonnes of videos in slow motion, wrote down every step they took, and then tried to duplicate it. By doing this I was actually able to get into their minds and their thought process about how they aim, strike, and play position. I constantly asked WHY rather than accepting any one methodology as gospel. I tried to glean how and why they developed the cue action. I spent a lot of time, in particular, with Ronnie and Marco's techniques, discovered flaws, imperfections, and then adapted their systems to create my own.

its all good trying to follow a pro, but we are all different, our build our mind our personalities, so what works for one might not work for others. if it did every pro would have the same stance, same grip, same approach..etc...etc.

everyone should find what works for them and get comfortable with it.

there are lots of tips, dos and don'ts on this forum, some good, some not so good, its up to the individual to experiment and choose what works for them.

overall if there is one tip that I think holds true no matter who you are and what ever level you're at is "make your decision while standing then drop straight down, stay still and cue straight and smooth with full follow through until the grip hand hits the chest, all this while keeping your eyes locked on the OB"

[lesedwards]

its all good trying to follow a pro, but we are all different, our build our mind our personalities, so what works for one might not work for others. if it did every pro would have the same stance, same grip, same approach..etc...etc.

everyone should find what works for them and get comfortable with it.

there are lots of tips, dos and don'ts on this forum, some good, some not so good, its up to the individual to experiment and choose what works for them.

overall if there is one tip that I think holds true no matter who you are and what ever level you're at is "make your decision while standing then drop straight down, stay still and cue straight and smooth with full follow through until the grip hand hits the chest, all this while keeping your eyes locked on the OB"

I agree with that. I am starting back at my Snooker Gym tonight with my new and improved swing and see how I get along with some of the simple things.

[vmax4steve]

Everyone will tell you NOT to look at the pocket, but one of the greatest player of all time, Stephen Hendry, was famous for looking at the pocket during his feathering. So what does that tell you?

Hendry would have one quick glance to the pocket during his feathers but always switched back to the object ball on the strike.

[vmax4steve]

Level 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQMJch-ZVoQ
Level 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFYiv3_ml0
Level 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnE-SSd9XvI
Level 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85XnEwJVvQE
Level 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl_AZr1jG0I
Level 6 (part 1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMz4ReHoPYg
Level 6 (part 2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPxGJ8NRiw0
Level 7 (part 1-4): http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/dong33.html
Level 8 (all 5 parts): http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/Bronze.html
Level 9: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/dong21.html
Level 10: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/gold.html
Level 11: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/Platinum.html
Level 12: http://www.snooker-sportclub.com/diamond.html

Bloody hell !!

Some of this is just dumbing down in the extreme. I could do a lot of this before I even picked up a cue for the first time.
I can't see any sense of achievement in passing level one at all !

[lesedwards]

Bloody hell !!

Some of this is just dumbing down in the extreme. I could do a lot of this before I even picked up a cue for the first time.
I can't see any sense of achievement in passing level one at all !

I know, he is just trying to help. I am refreshing with my Snooker GYM but just trying to get rolling with my new cue action.

[vmax4steve]

I know, he is just trying to help. I am refreshing with my Snooker GYM but just trying to get rolling with my new cue action.

Don't go back to all that Les, you're doing so much better just concentrating on the object ball. Do that for a few months first, leave everything else alone until that's sorted. Too much too soon didn't work before and it won't again.
Half of this bloody stuff is designed purely to make money by draggggggggging out courses with stepped diplomas.

[lesedwards]

Don't go back to all that Les, you're doing so much better just concentrating on the object ball. Do that for a few months first, leave everything else alone until that's sorted. Too much too soon didn't work before and it won't again.
Half of this bloody stuff is designed purely to make money by draggggggggging out courses with stepped diplomas.

I don't want to go back to any of it I just want to be a decent player that can run some balls when I get a chance and win a few matches. When you go a whole season only wining 4 games out of 9 qualifiers loosing all first matches and most of them 4-0 you wonder where to turn first. We now have two threads going just on me I feel so privileged but yet so confused. Maybe I would be better with one person doing face time or skype working one on one but who wants to take the time and I do not have un limited funds.