Laminate vs pressed tips

[culraven]

I am a self confessed tip tart with more than a slight fetish for tipping cues, and have only ever kept 3 tips on until they actually needed replacing (MW, elk and ADR), as when I start to lose form it's the first thing to go!
I have found the only really consistent tips are laminated, in particular ADR medium, Mike came close for a while but recently has been hit and miss, and the pro granites where very consistent but became too hard when played in.
For me I think that's all it boils down to. I want to be able to stick a tip on and be confident it will play just like the one I've taken off.

So my vote goes with laminated tips, they might cost a couple of pints instead of a bag of crisps, but well worth the extra.

[luke-h]

Love the feel of ADR's soft black tip but mine split a few weeks ago so im back to the trusted pressed elks.

[ghost121]

I put one of the new green Wooldridge Supertips on recently and it played superbly for about a fortnight and now it keeps going hard. A bit of perforation with a pricking tool helps but it then feels too soft, plays in again, and then goes hard even faster. It's going to have to come off. ADR Medium or pressed Elk are my other options. I suspect I will have similar issues with the pressed Elk, so I think the ADR Medium with be next.

[Dave Walton]

Always preferred pressed tips when i was younger but now love the adr tips both the medium and super soft although obviously different are excellent, generally i now use laminated

[MikeWooldridge]

Mike came close for a while but recently has been hit and miss

yes, i have had issues. not actually that many, but too many regardless. which is why i have spent the last couple of years designing new tools and procedures, which will totally eradicate any consistency problems.

but, have you contacted me about the problems? if not, it is important to understand that unless customers let me know and return tips for me to investigate, it is impossible for me to solve the problem.

i will always replace tips if there is an issue cos they should always be good.

For me I think that's all it boils down to. I want to be able to stick a tip on and be confident it will play just like the one I've taken off.

me too

I put one of the new green Wooldridge Supertips on recently and it played superbly for about a fortnight and now it keeps going hard. A bit of perforation with a pricking tool helps but it then feels too soft, plays in again, and then goes hard even faster. It's going to have to come off.

same question, have you contacted me? i need to see the tip you're taking off along with any unused ones in the pack so i can take measurements and make adjustments, if necessary, to my procedures.

i'm in the early stages of my new production method and there are invariably teething problems, so i need to be told about problems in order that i can fix them.

[culraven]

yes, i have had issues. not actually that many, but too many regardless. which is why i have spent the last couple of years designing new tools and procedures, which will totally eradicate any consistency problems.

but, have you contacted me about the problems? if not, it is important to understand that unless customers let me know and return tips for me to investigate, it is impossible for me to solve the problem.

i will always replace tips if there is an issue cos they should always be good.




me too



same question, have you contacted me? i need to see the tip you're taking off along with any unused ones in the pack so i can take measurements and make adjustments, if necessary, to my procedures.

i'm in the early stages of my new production method and there are invariably teething problems, so i need to be told about problems in order that i can fix them.

Just thought it was expected from time to time and didn't think to let you know sorry Mike, plus I didn't buy them directly from you. image.jpg
These were the last 2 I had?

[MikeWooldridge]

Just thought it was expected from time to time and didn't think to let you know sorry Mike, plus I didn't buy them directly from you. [ATTACH]17854[/ATTACH]
These were the last 2 I had?

no worries but the advantage of direct contact with a manufacturer, in this case me, is that i am the only one who can fix problems. and i can only fix problems if i'm told.

pictures don't help, i need to test tips that are 'wrong' and try to understand what has happened.

i've been making massive changes and if i don't get things perfect straight away, it won't be long.

in fact, i would go as far as to say there will simply be no need to consider using other tips cos i have the ability now to fine tune the tips to suit EXACTLY what a player wants, be it harder or softer etc..

[Master Blaster]

Love the feel of ADR's soft black tip but mine split a few weeks ago so im back to the trusted pressed elks.

Cannot blame you. I went the whole laminated route, tried them all. They split or chip occasionally, you lose grip and spin but you get a tip you don't have to fuss about when it's shaped. It's also better for stun shots, more travel. But a good elk is the best tip, the choice of champions. I think Higgins uses a Kamui but I can't think of another top player on laminated tips. The pros with the most cue power choose Elks. Now if you're JT or NR or SM, you ain't gonna put a lammy on. Ronnie ain't gonna swap the sweet shots in the balls. Single layer tips have dominated snooker for a very good reasons. If you're not too bothered about loss of grip, lammies are a good choice. Horses for courses I guess.

[RogiBear]

Cannot blame you. I went the whole laminated route, tried them all. They split or chip occasionally, you lose grip and spin but you get a tip you don't have to fuss about when it's shaped. It's also better for stun shots, more travel. But a good elk is the best tip, the choice of champions. I think Higgins uses a Kamui but I can't think of another top player on laminated tips. The pros with the most cue power choose Elks. Now if you're JT or NR or SM, you ain't gonna put a lammy on. Ronnie ain't gonna swap the sweet shots in the balls. Single layer tips have dominated snooker for a very good reasons. If you're not too bothered about loss of grip, lammies are a good choice. Horses for courses I guess.

both selby and dott have been using kamui tips. Personally since I've tried laminates I haven't gone back to pressed tips what so ever they are far too soft for my liking. As for de-lamination or chips, it has never happened to any laminate tip I have fitted on either my cues or anyone else's.

[Master Blaster]

both selby and dott have been using kamui tips. Personally since I've tried laminates I haven't gone back to pressed tips what so ever they are far too soft for my liking. As for de-lamination or chips, it has never happened to any laminate tip I have fitted on either my cues or anyone else's.

So Ronnie, Ding, Judd, Robbo and Murphy are all on single layer pressed tips?! And JP puts Elks on JPUs as standard.

I've used Kamui and they are easily the best laminated tip out there but they still lack the screw and top spin a single layer tip can produce. Laminated tips lack grip, even the chalk does not grip them properly, that's the giveaway sign.

[Ramon]

So Ronnie, Ding, Judd, Robbo and Murphy are all on single layer pressed tips?! And JP puts Elks on JPUs as standard.

I've used Kamui and they are easily the best laminated tip out there but they still lack the screw and top spin a single layer tip can produce. Laminated tips lack grip, even the chalk does not grip them properly, that's the giveaway sign.

Master Blaster , I do agree with you that LM and press tips have a totally different playability!!
One of the reasons that pros do not use the LM tips ( most of them ). is because they play on a very fast table (match table). put a adr LM tip ( or a kamui md ) on a responsf cue and play on a match table,, Belive me , u have a big problem !! cus of CB control !! i have traid this and did cost me a few hours to use to it . lot of spin and CB respons thr !!!
Is true, with press tips you can feel the shot more than when you play with LM tips !! But , when u saying LM tips still lack the screw ! i do'nt agree with that !!
you can also create spin with LM tips!!
is a matter of personal preference . sum players just can'nt use to it . nothing wrong with that.
whach this Vid . he uses Talisman . and imo talisman is mutch harder comper to other LM tips !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8u6z1N5A-g

[lbs]

after all these talk, what is missing here is a real pro's reply on why laminated tips are not popular...I will not go so far to suggest that pros avoid them...

(here is my take, from a below-average player)

If laminated tips are as bad as they say, nobody in the American billiards circuit will touch them. Neither will I suggest that laminated tips has significantly less grip on the cue ball. The worst laminated tips I tried still grips the ball decently.

Do block tips hold chalk better than laminated? Arguable. If you get a poor quality block tip (like some le professional tips), they don't grip after some use. Some tips don't look as like they retain chalk well but the grip is there.

The whole benefit of using a laminated tip, ultimately for me, is that you have less bedding in time, and usually you don't get a "forever spongy" tip.

[RogiBear]

So Ronnie, Ding, Judd, Robbo and Murphy are all on single layer pressed tips?! And JP puts Elks on JPUs as standard.
As far as I know yes, however does Ronnie use standard elks?? Jp and a lot of other cuemakers do put elks on standard but is this actually because they believe they are the best or is it purely for financial reasons? If other tips cost next to nothing would they put something else on? I'm not saying elks are bad but they're not for everyone. eg Mike has developed his own pressed tip and fits them as standard would he have bothered to invest time/money if elks weren't somewhat flawed?
I've used Kamui and they are easily the best laminated tip out there but they still lack the screw and top spin a single layer tip can produce. Laminated tips lack grip, even the chalk does not grip them properly, that's the giveaway sign.

I don't want to argue over the subject but from my personal experience I can't generate the spin with a pressed tip that I can with a kamui or alike. I like the crisp clean hit of them, imo the timing required to play with a laminated tip is slightly different. I agree that they do not take chalk quite as well but over the 4 years of using them I have technique that works for me and don't have miscue or grip problems. Maybe you just haven't given them enough time?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

after all these talk, what is missing here is a real pro's reply on why laminated tips are not popular...I will not go so far to suggest that pros avoid them...

(here is my take, from a below-average player)

If laminated tips are as bad as they say, nobody in the American billiards circuit will touch them. Neither will I suggest that laminated tips has significantly less grip on the cue ball. The worst laminated tips I tried still grips the ball decently.

Do block tips hold chalk better than laminated? Arguable. If you get a poor quality block tip (like some le professional tips), they don't grip after some use. Some tips don't look as like they retain chalk well but the grip is there.

The whole benefit of using a laminated tip, ultimately for me, is that you have less bedding in time, and usually you don't get a "forever spongy" tip.

Kamui dominate the american pool scene and have done for years. It takes a long time to bed in a single layered tips but layered tips play well from the off. They also do not harden as much as they age, which is the point of them.

To say single layered tips outperform layered tips in terms of grip is just plain wrong. Obviously some brands use better quality leather than others, but the best grip like crazy, too much for some.

The disadvantage to them is they are prone to glazing, so can be high maintenance. They also have a tendency to fall to pieces just when you think you've found the perfect tip.

I use them for american pool but not snooker or english pool. I don't think they are needed for those games.

And can people call them layered, which is what they are, and not laminated, which what they ain't? Ta.

[Master Blaster]

Evening.

It does not take ages to bed in a pressed tip; a Buffalo Diamond Plus is bedded in after one session, the same as a lammy.

It doesn't matter how many pool players use lammy tips, snooker pros don't and the pros over here have tried lammys, Ronnie, Higgins, etc, etc.

I have found after using lammys for three years that going back to a BDP has led to increased spin.

Lammys do not chalk as well, that's why Kamui developed special and expensive lammy chalk costing twenty quid a block.

A Kamui is going to cost you at least a tenner; that's 3 years worth of BDPs!

If you have an elk and it isn't hard enough, press it and it won't need bedding in either. Ask Fred Kite.

Ronnie used a LM tip and then he went back to Elks. That's the acid test for me, the greatest ever, using an Elk.

Here's Jimmy using a I think, a Blue Diamond on Super Crystallate balls (heavy and slow) on a slowish table back in the day, FF to 45:45, did he need a lammy? -