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  • getting through the ball

    When I feel I am cueing well, I note how well I'm getting through the ball.

    So, this feels to me that all shots are hit hard or firmly. Even low pace shots are played with short bs but still getting through with high velocity or acceleration.

    Both the coaches I have seen have tried to slow it down - feathers slower, no snatching etc- they tell me to be really controlled in the shot.

    I find now I am not getting through the ball, I'm not accelerating through it and my stroke is timid.

    How do you reconcile a controlled strike with proper acceleration? When I've been on fire I note how hard I am going through the ball.

    granted slowing my feathers and backing has helped, but we still need to get some power in the stroke right?

    I try to think "acceleration at impAct" but this game doesn't really work well with words. On the rare occasion I am in the zone, I have not been thinking about anything, it felt like how it feels when I master a new guitar piece- it's just muscle memory or something.

    So, how should I approach ny actual stroke - if we control power with bs length, I can play a 5cm backswing as hard as possible, or I could play it at 0.00000001 mph and prob double kiss!

    How much in % terms power is applied ? 80% like golf?

    Cheers

  • #2
    not sure if this will help but resident TSF Coach Terry D once said in a post to someone else, and it just stuck with me
    [paraphrase] "Try to forget about the cue ball and imagine hitting the object ball with your cue at the point you want the cue ball to hit."
    Of course not for the very close shots but for nearly all others it works for me and I seem to hit through and time pretty well (for me)
    Last edited by DeanH; 25 January 2016, 11:27 AM.
    Up the TSF! :snooker:

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    • #3
      Interesting that you were told to slow down. I visited a coach and asked for advice on how to concentrate better amongst the balls, I had a nasty tendency to miss on 50/60 for no apparent reason. He asked me to feather the same amount of times on each shot, I had a tendency to slow down when doing this but this was something he told me not to do. I'm surprised you were told to slow down, unless you were cueing that quickly it looked as though you were trying to saw your hand off?

      I'm not a coach but i'm a decent player with experience and knowledge and would advise going back to how you were before but having a consistent pre shot routine. Up to you whether you choose to take any of that on board Let me know how you get on!
      "just tap it in":snooker:

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      • #4
        I think it's good to understand the physics behind what you are doing.
        The reason you accelerate is to keep the muscles in your arm relaxed, any kind of decel requires tension and this is where the problems arise.
        After impact 1/1000th of a second later the cue ball is gone and nothing you do will change it's course or reaction so accelerating through the ball is a misnomer.
        The power of the stroke is down to cue speed, the longer back swing & bridge will help you generate more speed but you need to keep the muscles relaxed and often trying to hit the ball hard tenses the muscles in the grip, wrist and arm often reducing accuracy.

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        • #5
          Originally Posted by Philthepockets View Post
          I think it's good to understand the physics behind what you are doing.
          The reason you accelerate is to keep the muscles in your arm relaxed, any kind of decel requires tension and this is where the problems arise.
          After impact 1/1000th of a second later the cue ball is gone and nothing you do will change it's course or reaction so accelerating through the ball is a misnomer.
          The power of the stroke is down to cue speed, the longer back swing & bridge will help you generate more speed but you need to keep the muscles relaxed and often trying to hit the ball hard tenses the muscles in the grip, wrist and arm often reducing accuracy.
          Not strictly true, for deep screw and top spin shots the tip is in contact much longer, maybe twice as long as a simple plain ball or stun. If this wasn't possible, Trump wouldn't be able to pot down the rail and screw back into and out of baulk simply by punching the bottom of the ball with the contact time of a stun shot. Someone can punch the bottom of the ball as hard as they like (A=F/M) but I will always be able to screw further with less force, more contact/grip and thus more back spinning of the cue ball. In fact you can achieve more spin with less force and simply getting through the ball more. If you apply more force, you often snatch the shot.

          Deceleration towards the ball also works in the hands of a master such as John Higgins. A lot of people will use decel and drag to make a cue ball stop when stun or screw would involve losing ideal position.

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          • #6
            Originally Posted by DeanH View Post
            not sure if this will help but resident TSF Coach Terry D once said in a post to someone else, and it just stuck with me
            [paraphrase] "Try to forget about the cue ball and imagine hitting the object ball with your cue at the point you want the cue ball to hit."
            Of course not for the very close shots but for nearly all others it works for me and I seem to hit through and time pretty well (for me)
            Haha, if you do that when you're playing side you'll miss the OB altogether!:biggrin-new:

            You either play the correct angle, or as Tom has said, you play the ghost plant ball full in the face.

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            • #7
              Originally Posted by barrywhite View Post
              Haha, if you do that when you're playing side you'll miss the OB altogether!:biggrin-new:

              You either play the correct angle, or as Tom has said, you play the ghost plant ball full in the face.
              ???
              of course you already have the line of cue ball travel, as I said "at the point you want the cue ball to hit" the point I was trying to pass over and what TD was trying as well was for people not being able to play through the cue ball on their shots.

              never mind
              Up the TSF! :snooker:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally Posted by barrywhite View Post
                Not strictly true, for deep screw and top spin shots the tip is in contact much longer, maybe twice as long as a simple plain ball or stun. If this wasn't possible, Trump wouldn't be able to pot down the rail and screw back into and out of baulk simply by punching the bottom of the ball with the contact time of a stun shot. Someone can punch the bottom of the ball as hard as they like (A=F/M) but I will always be able to screw further with less force, more contact/grip and thus more back spinning of the cue ball. In fact you can achieve more spin with less force and simply getting through the ball more. If you apply more force, you often snatch the shot.

                Deceleration towards the ball also works in the hands of a master such as John Higgins. A lot of people will use decel and drag to make a cue ball stop when stun or screw would involve losing ideal position.
                Barry, it is an unfortunate myth that still perpetuates and has been busted scientifically http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...p.html#contact
                Drawing the ball simply is a factor of cue speed + mass and torque, the lower you contact the CB the more rotational force applied, it is simple physics. He simply generates more speed and accuracy of contact.

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                • #9
                  Originally Posted by Philthepockets View Post
                  Barry, it is an unfortunate myth that still perpetuates and has been busted scientifically http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...p.html#contact
                  Drawing the ball simply is a factor of cue speed + mass and torque, the lower you contact the CB the more rotational force applied, it is simple physics. He simply generates more speed and accuracy of contact.
                  I don't like science being involved in snooker. It's just a game, no need to try get a degree in cue sports. I do know I've seen plenty of players play with great cue speed + mass and torque, really low on the cue ball and get hardly any backspin. In fact the cue ball has flown off forward 6 inches high and ended up on the floor.

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                  • #10
                    Originally Posted by markz View Post
                    I don't like science being involved in snooker. It's just a game, no need to try get a degree in cue sports. I do know I've seen plenty of players play with great cue speed + mass and torque, really low on the cue ball and get hardly any backspin. In fact the cue ball has flown off forward 6 inches high and ended up on the floor.
                    That's unfortunate, hope no one was seriously injured.
                    However some of us do like the science behind it and hopefully others that are trying to improve will find it helpful in understanding what is really happening and allow them to focus on the parts that matter to improve their skill and enjoyment of the game.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally Posted by Philthepockets View Post
                      Barry, it is an unfortunate myth that still perpetuates and has been busted scientifically http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...p.html#contact
                      Drawing the ball simply is a factor of cue speed + mass and torque, the lower you contact the CB the more rotational force applied, it is simple physics. He simply generates more speed and accuracy of contact.
                      Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. 2 posts in 7 years, but worth the wait.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally Posted by markz View Post
                        I don't like science being involved in snooker. It's just a game, no need to try get a degree in cue sports. I do know I've seen plenty of players play with great cue speed + mass and torque, really low on the cue ball and get hardly any backspin. In fact the cue ball has flown off forward 6 inches high and ended up on the floor.
                        I don't recommend the physics side of things to aspiring pros but it's great for geeky bangers like me.

                        There are some who don't even realise the balls throw on contact - unbelievable!

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                        • #13
                          Originally Posted by Philthepockets View Post
                          That's unfortunate, hope no one was seriously injured.
                          However some of us do like the science behind it and hopefully others that are trying to improve will find it helpful in understanding what is really happening and allow them to focus on the parts that matter to improve their skill and enjoyment of the game.
                          Welcome to the forum. Problem with snooker is human error, we will never play every shot perfectly. I'm sure if someone did work it all out scientifically they would be world champ for many years to come.

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                          • #14
                            Originally Posted by Hello, Mr Big Shot View Post
                            Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. 2 posts in 7 years, but worth the wait.
                            I am glad that this forum can finally be useful. there is not much knowledge here But if you can hold your breath a little bit longer , we'll get thr .
                            INM time I'm sure you're able to forgive us, Your Highness

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                            • #15
                              A little more info on generating speed http://www.feeltennis.net/effortless-tennis-strokes/
                              Generally with the snooker stroke muscle tension causes the cue to be pulled off line and the common error when trying to get more power as in a screw shot is tightening the grip, this causes the tip to rise at the end of the stroke and results in striking the cue ball higher than intended ie less draw also muscle tension in the arm reduces cue speed ie less power. Just to add IMO the most important part of the game is the grip, it controls everything about the stroke.
                              Last edited by Philthepockets; 25 January 2016, 09:10 PM.

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