Found something interesting

[bluenose1940]

I decided to spend the day tidying up the bookcases in my study today and, I found "The Complete Book of Snooker" by Eddie Charlton. I must admit that I had no idea that I had got this book, or at least I certainly didn't remember it (probably shows how much I scan the shelves!)

Anyway, the upshot is that, flicking through the pages, I came across a couple of items under the heading 'Side' and was quite surprised at what I saw. Although I am very much 'an old'un, I always, without fail, play for good position of the cue ball following a pot and obviously on occasion this necessitates the use of side to achieve the goal. I make allowance for this when 'aiming' but my allowances are usually quite small and, having looked at this article and the amount of 'allowance' that Eddie makes took me somewhat by surprise. I certainly have never made the sort of allowance shown in the illustrations I have attached and, this makes me think that the 2 or 3 times out of 5 that I get 'really good' position must be flukes. I get position on the next ball quite frequently but sometimes the next pot is more difficult than I would have liked.

Having looked again at the article, I will make sure that when I play tomorrow, if the opportunities arise, I will make 'more allowance' and see if things improve for me.

I am hoping that the images have uploaded OK and that you can see them. Just in case you can't read the text, the white marks on the cushions in each image, is where Eddie aims the black ball.


Eddie Charlton_1.jpgEddie Charlton_2.jpg

[bolton-cueman]

I decided to spend the day tidying up the bookcases in my study today and, I found "The Complete Book of Snooker" by Eddie Charlton. I must admit that I had no idea that I had got this book, or at least I certainly didn't remember it (probably shows how much I scan the shelves!)

Anyway, the upshot is that, flicking through the pages, I came across a couple of items under the heading 'Side' and was quite surprised at what I saw. Although I am very much 'an old'un, I always, without fail, play for good position of the cue ball following a pot and obviously on occasion this necessitates the use of side to achieve the goal. I make allowance for this when 'aiming' but my allowances are usually quite small and, having looked at this article and the amount of 'allowance' that Eddie makes took me somewhat by surprise. I certainly have never made the sort of allowance shown in the illustrations I have attached and, this makes me think that the 2 or 3 times out of 5 that I get 'really good' position must be flukes. I get position on the next ball quite frequently but sometimes the next pot is more difficult than I would have liked.

Having looked again at the article, I will make sure that when I play tomorrow, if the opportunities arise, I will make 'more allowance' and see if things improve for me.

I am hoping that the images have uploaded OK and that you can see them. Just in case you can't read the text, the white marks on the cushions in each image, is where Eddie aims the black ball.


[ATTACH]18271[/ATTACH][ATTACH]18272[/ATTACH]

allowing for throw is v tricky to do - depends on the table, your cue and more importantly how you hit the cue ball...

good find though!

Might have a rummage through my shelves to see if I have this too

[golferson123]

allowing for throw is v tricky to do - depends on the table, your cue and more importantly how you hit the cue ball...

good find though!

Might have a rummage through my shelves to see if I have this too

nice post! the objective is to try to get a cue as neutral as possible re throw, it has to throw a bit or it will swerve ie of the break you will miss the pack, if playing with r/hand, also it might throw heavily over short distances but recover fast, or throw a small amount over short distances but tend to swerve over long shots! . minefield comes to mind, also remember eddie hated playing with side poss because his cue wasn't that good at it lol

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

nice post! the objective is to try to get a cue as neutral as possible re throw, it has to throw a bit or it will swerve ie of the break you will miss the pack, if playing with r/hand, also it might throw heavily over short distances but recover fast, or throw a small amount over short distances but tend to swerve over long shots! . minefield comes to mind, also remember eddie hated playing with side poss because his cue wasn't that good at it lol

It is really important to use correct and precise terminology: Charlton is describing deflection (or squirt), not throw (which is what happens when balls collide). Not having consistent and precise terminology leads to meaningless guff like "push-off".

incidentally, it appears Charlton was unaware of collision induced throw - it is no surprise some professional players are ignorant of what happens when balls collide.

Those that can, do etc...

[bolton-cueman]

It is really important to use correct and precise terminology: Charlton is describing deflection (or squirt), not throw (which is what happens when balls collide). Not having consistent and precise terminology leads to meaningless guff like "push-off".

incidentally, it appears Charlton was unaware of collision induced throw - it is no surprise some professional players are ignorant of what happens when balls collide.

Those that can, do etc...

collision induced throw?

sweet jesus. We've gone all Dr Dave...

[golferson123]

It is really important to use correct and precise terminology: Charlton is describing deflection (or squirt), not throw (which is what happens when balls collide). Not having consistent and precise terminology leads to meaningless guff like "push-off".

incidentally, it appears Charlton was unaware of collision induced throw - it is no surprise some professional players are ignorant of what happens when balls collide.

Those that can, do etc...

Please dont correct me with your version of terminology , keep reading the books

[golferson123]

It is really important to use correct and precise terminology: Charlton is describing deflection (or squirt), not throw (which is what happens when balls collide). Not having consistent and precise terminology leads to meaningless guff like "push-off".

incidentally, it appears Charlton was unaware of collision induced throw - it is no surprise some professional players are ignorant of what happens when balls collide.

Those that can, do etc...

By the way there is a pool forum why dont you meander down there

[vmax4steve]

I am hoping that the images have uploaded OK and that you can see them. Just in case you can't read the text, the white marks on the cushions in each image, is where Eddie aims the black ball.


[ATTACH]18271[/ATTACH][ATTACH]18272[/ATTACH]

Fig 2 is wrong, you have to aim the same as in fig 1 because the side is spinning in the same direction as the nap which makes the swerve on the cue ball greater after the cue balls initial throw to the right and it comes back to the correct contact point for the pot rather than stay on the initial line of throw for longer when the side is spinning against the nap as in fig 1.

This is what Reardon states in his book Classic Snooker, no wonder Charlton couldn't play with side

[ExtinctSKB]

I've actually been wondering a lot about squirt, swerve and throw. It seems it depends on a lot of factors. Pace of the shot, distance to the OB, direction wrt the nap and even if you punch the ball or follow through smoothly. You can see the impact of pace most clearly if you play a swerve shot. If you play it slow the swerve kicks in almost immediatly. If you play it fast then the CB goes straght for a while before it swerves. So this makes the distance to the OB important. If you play a power shot on an OB close by the CB probably won't have a chance to swerve. I also had someone tell me that if you punch the CB you should adjust more than if you follow through smoothly (or was it the other way round?).
Anyway I guess that through lots of training you will adjust automatically depending on the shot.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Please dont correct me with your version of terminology , keep reading the books

It is not MY version of terminology, it is THE version of terminology. The snooker world is perfectly free to join the 21st century and develop their own, but, in the meantime, probably better to use that which is already established.

Otherwise, absolute nonsense like "push-off" gets used, even by pro players.

If you can't beat them, join them.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

By the way there is a pool forum why dont you meander down there

I have. Anyway, the game does not matter; not the cues, or the balls, or the table - nothing. The laws of physics affect all wooden, leather, phenolic and cloth items absolutely equally.

The fact remains: snooker has clumsy and ill-defined terminology, and it's bad for the game. Develop your own or adopt those that already exist, just get some consistency.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I've actually been wondering a lot about squirt, swerve and throw. It seems it depends on a lot of factors. Pace of the shot, distance to the OB, direction wrt the nap and even if you punch the ball or follow through smoothly. You can see the impact of pace most clearly if you play a swerve shot. If you play it slow the swerve kicks in almost immediatly. If you play it fast then the CB goes straght for a while before it swerves. So this makes the distance to the OB important. If you play a power shot on an OB close by the CB probably won't have a chance to swerve. I also had someone tell me that if you punch the CB you should adjust more than if you follow through smoothly (or was it the other way round?).
Anyway I guess that through lots of training you will adjust automatically depending on the shot.

Correct, but it is good to know what happens when balls collide and can cut learning times for beginners.

The amount of deflection (or squirt) should not vary based on whether the shot is punched or stroked. Again, there is a wealth of info on Dr dave's site about this.

[Catch 22]

It is really important to use correct and precise terminology: Charlton is describing deflection (or squirt), not throw (which is what happens when balls collide). Not having consistent and precise terminology leads to meaningless guff like "push-off".

incidentally, it appears Charlton was unaware of collision induced throw - it is no surprise some professional players are ignorant of what happens when balls collide.

Those that can, do etc...

How many cue sports use the term deflection or squirt?

I've never heard a snooker player use those terms . Or any uk 8ball players . Or any of the old billiard players either .

I've only heard it used for American pool myself . Not sure about others . I know Americans in general use that terminology but I've not heard players of the respective sports use it

Sort of like playing with "English " .ive only heard that used by American pool players . I've only ever heard the term "side" used for any other cue sport

Come to think of it


Bank shot ...... Double
Draw ..............screw

Are these terms used exclusively for American pool or would Americans use these terms for all cue sports ?

[itsnoteasy]

Shape, as in I potted the red and made good shape on the black.
Shape = position.

[Catch 22]

Kick shot .....CB hit cushion first (I think)