Breakthrough

[Snookclops]

Ok - no 50 yet but last night I played my nemesis - actually my best snooker buddy who usually beats me.

Over the last year, he has won 95% of our 2 a week matches. Winning about 90% of frames.

I narrowly beat him before but last night I scored 62 points in a frame (new record) and hammered him.

It all clicked into place. I made my long reds, i potted everything or left him on the rail.

This was down to mainly one change:

Cue action. I started "pushing" through the ball, almost like I was trying to catch it on the tip and push it to the OB. This made my stroke a lot shorter. Prior I would take a longer BS and kind of "hit" it. It also made my stroke slower.

Very hard to explain but felt like all my power with the ball was generated from the cue through a small (1 in backswing). The acceleration from one inch from impact to chest creates power on its own without the need to have a big backswing run up! I'm not saying I had a smaller backswing, it's more that the delivery is slower until the cue gets closer to the ball, then pushes straight through it.

I could never make slow pots with old technique but I was making slow long reds holding for black, real control on dinky shots....

Is this finally "cueing well" ? Have others been through this or can remember this revelation?

I know the science supports the contact point/power only theory, but boy does accelerating through impact help accuracy!

Comments welcome!

[Byrom]

Yes - its a hard thing to describe the stroke.

Some learners jab and stop at the front face of the white but the best technique is to drive thro the white - now some swing through and others push or drive

I push thro and this accelerating through the white puts you more in control because you improve your timing doing this. Trick is to get your stroke smooth and consistent and not 'over hit' as this is my own main fault on occasion.

Timing to me by the way is the length of time your tip is in contact with the white - push thro and its in contact a fraction more and you are more in control of the stroke - you notice the sound of the contact of the balls change too if you have been doing anything different.

Learning this was one of those little 'its clicked' moments back then for me too.
The guy that showed me years ago compared it to a cricketer swinging the bat and timing the stroke I understood what he meant.

[cantpotforshíte]

Timing to me is also the length of time that the tip is in contact with the white, and for exactly the same reason that Byrom gives: that it gives you control over the shot.

The op mentions 'I know the science supports the contact point/power only theory'
I assume that he is referring to the oft-quoted statistic of the tip only being in contact with the cue-ball for an eightieth of a second , or whatever it is - and therefore it can't have any effect on the spin applied to the ball.
This is in fact not science, but religion. Just because one person with a slo-mo has timed it at doesn't mean that the contact time is the same for all shots. The contact time varies a lot - due to variations in tip hardness, cue whippiness, how relaxed your grip is, how you accelerate through the ball, and where you strike the cue-ball.
Timing is important, and as the OP has discovered, you can change it.

[Byrom]

Timing to me is also the length of time that the tip is in contact with the white, and for exactly the same reason that Byrom gives: that it gives you control over the shot.

The op mentions 'I know the science supports the contact point/power only theory'
I assume that he is referring to the oft-quoted statistic of the tip only being in contact with the cue-ball for an eightieth of a second , or whatever it is - and therefore it can't have any effect on the spin applied to the ball.
This is in fact not science, but religion. Just because one person with a slo-mo has timed it at doesn't mean that the contact time is the same for all shots. The contact time varies a lot - due to variations in tip hardness, cue whippiness, how relaxed your grip is, how you accelerate through the ball, and where you strike the cue-ball.
Timing is important, and as the OP has discovered, you can change it.

Agree hard to explain to people who don't know - they need to feel and hear the difference

Here is a video in slow mo that might help beginners begin to understand better. Even at this speed you cannot really notice the timing as tip is only in contact a minute fraction longer but that bit makes all the difference in your timing watch this and the Ronnie video next keep your eyes on the cue delivery and the way it goes through - it drives smoothly right through the ball.

Players learning need to experience the feel of doing this on the table and hear the difference - its better and easier for a good player or coach to show you in person rather than players like me and the above poster trying to explain in words because this is the basics and everyone is a bit different in their set up.

A coach in person would get you playing in the right posture so you are set right to enable you to do this. A lot of beginners and intermediate either don't hold the cue right there cue is too short or they don't hold it right, or they have too much bridge, or don't bend the arm enough, or stand right to enable them to drive and get through the white consistently and correctly - get this bit right you are well on your way to being half decent.

[Byrom]

[Byrom]

[Snookclops]

I understood that accelerating doesn't change the dynamics but just helps set up the cue better. However, I am now thinking this:

If the ball is only in contact for a short time, if the contact time increases to 1/60 of a second, that's 50% longer. So could that account for it?

Whatever the road, accelerating through has improved my game dramatically

[Catch 22]

Very interesting thread

I have been using Jason's TUCA a lot but could not replicate the accuracy on the table . I've realised that my stroke when hitting the ball is different from when I use the training aid . Even though it feels the same .

I tried imaging the white ball was the TUCA on the delivery and my accuracy improved a lot . I cued the ball better . I think that because in the back of my mind I know the cueball is heavy ,it subconsciously makes me hit the ball with more muscles rather than being relaxed and smooth . But imaging it being the training aid helps the cue go through smooth

[Tommykiid]

Breakthrough

even when you develop and figure out the technique I find you play with alot more confidence around the table and your game just feels way nicer

[golferson123]

out of all those the last was a dream, killer that is

[cantpotforshíte]

I understood that accelerating doesn't change the dynamics but just helps set up the cue better. However, I am now thinking this:

If the ball is only in contact for a short time, if the contact time increases to 1/60 of a second, that's 50% longer. So could that account for it?

Whatever the road, accelerating through has improved my game dramatically

That's exactly what it is.

The false argument that I have seen on here in the past goes something like: It has been proven that the tip is only i contact with the cue for an eightieth of a second, therefore the time in contact doesn't change and can't affect the amount of spin applied'.
That's akin to me timing a car going past my house at 30mph, and therefore coming to the conclusion that all cars travel at 30mph and depressing the brake or the accelerator pedal won't change anything. I mean it's that bad.

I think that people need to be taught the difference between religion and science at an early age.

[golferson123]

Very interesting thread

I have been using Jason's TUCA a lot but could not replicate the accuracy on the table . I've realised that my stroke when hitting the ball is different from when I use the training aid . Even though it feels the same .

I tried imaging the white ball was the TUCA on the delivery and my accuracy improved a lot . I cued the ball better . I think that because in the back of my mind I know the cueball is heavy ,it subconsciously makes me hit the ball with more muscles rather than being relaxed and smooth . But imaging it being the training aid helps the cue go through smooth

thats because when using the tuca you are looking at the cue ball , when playing you are not!

[golferson123]

That's exactly what it is.

The false argument that I have seen on here in the past goes something like: It has been proven that the tip is only i contact with the cue for an eightieth of a second, therefore the time in contact doesn't change and can't affect the amount of spin applied'.
That's akin to me timing a car going past my house at 30mph, and therefore coming to the conclusion that all cars travel at 30mph and depressing the brake or the accelerator pedal won't change anything. I mean it's that bad.

I think that people need to be taught the difference between religion and science at an early age.

where is mbs when you need him lol

[Byrom]

I understood that accelerating doesn't change the dynamics but just helps set up the cue better. However, I am now thinking this:

If the ball is only in contact for a short time, if the contact time increases to 1/60 of a second, that's 50% longer. So could that account for it?

Whatever the road, accelerating through has improved my game dramatically

Yes well I don't know the maths of it so maybe you are right -At a guess I think that's exactly right personally. all I know is I can sense and feel when my timing is right or when its off.

I do think there is an optimum speed to hit balls for this too I remember going to an early snooker event thinking to myself I thought they hit harder than that? when watching pro players play and I was amazed how soft they hit. Obviously they play on super fast beautiful conditions but they never over hit things like me and they stayed more consistent in there delivery. I hit too hard on long shots and jaw more as a result or to quick sometimes trying to over egg the position. On the right conditions you can float them in better. Mind you the game they play has not much resemblance to 95 per cent of club tables most use in UK and they are never off the table so are more in tune with these things than we can expect to be but if you practice enough you can develop a nice comfortable playing rhythm and a solid pre shot routine to back you up.

As for the tuca practice catch22 I would accelerate as you go thro it to try replicate your timing and finish on your chest but not too fast more of a controlled acceleration.

I think varying your grip might help and I always got told little tricks to help me get thro the white ...imagine the white is an egg and you got to crack it-spear it or aim your tip as if you mean to hit the object ball with it or Have a key word to use to link to the drive - mine was pull back on drivvvvvve - pause and - slowly accelerate thinking the word - thaaa- rooooooooough.

You might laugh but I did not need to do that all the time lol - we all have our little things and this helped me stay focused and keep my timing especially on them nervy match ball shots or if I ever felt hesitant.

Anyway I am talking like a genius - there are some much better players on here than me to explain things I think need to get back to playing a bit myself - but I hope this helps someone or makes a little sense to someone.

[jonny66]

I find if I make my final stroke as similar as possible to my feathers I hit the ball much sweeter. It is a feel thing though, you can tell if you've hit a sweet screwback shot, it almost feels as if you've cued through thin air.