Short Cueing - or is it just Normal Cueing?

[Cannonball]

So, JVC asking if anyone had a 59" cue, yes, 59"! It got me thinking. The common view is 58" for 6'ters. 57" for shorties at 5'8". and 59" for 6'4". It all depends doesn't it; on stance, arm length and most importantly of all cueing technique and grip. If one is adopting the boxer stance there is no doubt that someone will employ a longer butt hand to cue hand, it's just how you spread your body and arms more from the boxer. They'll need a longer cue. Foot-in-line is a different kettle of fish. We're sighting, cueing and concentrating down the line of one peg, canceling the other foot, certainly less weight on the other foot. And cueing less across the chin as well.

I've been reducing my bridge to ball for a few years now, and I'm down to about 8-9 inches. And today, I went another inch up the butt, and the old hand is nearly ahead of the chamfer so guess I'm only using 55" of my 58" cue and I'm 6'. Am I short cueing, who knows. It just feels normal now. Perversely (according to your club player's mentality of holding the end of the butt and maximising whack) cue power is up a notch (again!) and accuracy up as well. I'm minded of Selby's short bridge to ball. I remember selling a gorgeous maple to a friend because I felt it an inch short, it's probably two inches too long now!

I suppose the old line holds, that whatever your BtB, whatever your cue length, grip, stance, arm length, your cue arm should make no more than a 90 degree angle to the cue. Anything less and you're taking the cue inside the shot line and jabbing, anything much more and you take the cue back, take it offline to the outside, bring it back it and don't cue straight. But I'm also minded by Ronnie saying we should work on reducing our BtB to improve accuracy and reduce error; the grand master knows his beans. For me, reducing to 8-9 inches, with my grip, set-up, stance, etc, yields 55" of cue being used and 3" of overhang. How about you?

Straight cueing is nirvana.

(Chardonnay and football on the other screen; apologies if the english ain't da mustard tonight. Nice one mate, quality mate, cheers mate, lol)

[jrc750]

Who is JVC ?
I really like my 59" fishing rod, been playing really well with it, also put on some kind of laminated/layered tip, think it might be a Phoenix ??

[inevermissblue]

This is Cue Porn! As for the Shorter cueing...forget it! As its useless unless you know what else is going on besides. I'll assume you don't, hence your post.
Form should be relevant...relative...relentless... Get those right (sometimes i do...i really do) then you have nirvana!

In addition. I'd like to point out that since i moved areas, i have hardly played at all. Which has given me chance to think about my game more, and allowed me to understand in greater detail what i want and what it was. So yet again i'd like to dismiss all the claims that practise is critical and blah blah blah...also the cue ball versus object ball argument. I'm sorry...but any coaches out there who dismiss the cue ball method are only discrediting themselves!

Also my time spent away from the table has made me more hungry. So whats not to like???

[djax]

So, JVC asking if anyone had a 59" cue, yes, 59"! It got me thinking. The common view is 58" for 6'ters. 57" for shorties at 5'8". and 59" for 6'4". It all depends doesn't it; on stance, arm length and most importantly of all cueing technique and grip. If one is adopting the boxer stance there is no doubt that someone will employ a longer butt hand to cue hand, it's just how you spread your body and arms more from the boxer. They'll need a longer cue. Foot-in-line is a different kettle of fish. We're sighting, cueing and concentrating down the line of one peg, canceling the other foot, certainly less weight on the other foot. And cueing less across the chin as well.

I've been reducing my bridge to ball for a few years now, and I'm down to about 8-9 inches. And today, I went another inch up the butt, and the old hand is nearly ahead of the chamfer so guess I'm only using 55" of my 58" cue and I'm 6'. Am I short cueing, who knows. It just feels normal now. Perversely (according to your club player's mentality of holding the end of the butt and maximising whack) cue power is up a notch (again!) and accuracy up as well. I'm minded of Selby's short bridge to ball. I remember selling a gorgeous maple to a friend because I felt it an inch short, it's probably two inches too long now!

I suppose the old line holds, that whatever your BtB, whatever your cue length, grip, stance, arm length, your cue arm should make no more than a 90 degree angle to the cue. Anything less and you're taking the cue inside the shot line and jabbing, anything much more and you take the cue back, take it offline to the outside, bring it back it and don't cue straight. But I'm also minded by Ronnie saying we should work on reducing our BtB to improve accuracy and reduce error; the grand master knows his beans. For me, reducing to 8-9 inches, with my grip, set-up, stance, etc, yields 55" of cue being used and 3" of overhang. How about you?

Straight cueing is nirvana.

(Chardonnay and football on the other screen; apologies if the english ain't da mustard tonight. Nice one mate, quality mate, cheers mate, lol)

Many years ago now, I walked into a hotel in Singapore and started to play a game. All that was available, was a 52" pool cue. It felt so right, after playing with it I offered to purchase it. Taken by surprise, probably because it is a blog standard 1 piece cheapy they gave it to me. I'm six feet tall, and still using it. With a max of 74 - whatever you feel is right for you?

[itsnoteasy]

Many years ago now, I walked into a hotel in Singapore and started to play a game. All that was available, was a 52" pool cue. It felt so right, after playing with it I offered to purchase it. Taken by surprise, probably because it is a blog standard 1 piece cheapy they gave it to me. I'm six feet tall, and still using it. With a max of 74 - whatever you feel is right for you?

How the hell do you get both hands on and down on the cue, when it's that short? Do you have a really bent bridge arm? How do you play off a Cush when you sometimes need a longer bridge length?
Personally, I think getting down to eight inches bridge length is right on the lower limit

[djax]

How the hell do you get both hands on and down on the cue, when it's that short? Do you have a really bent bridge arm? How do you play off a Cush when you sometimes need a longer bridge length?
Personally, I think getting down to eight inches bridge length is right on the lower limit

All valid points. With no answer? I guess, because the questions you pose have never been raised whenever I play. I just do what comes naturally to me, in as much that I'm not fighting or forcing myself into a position that I am not comfortable with. However one point you raise that maybe valid? Due to a bike accident, I cannot straighten out my bridge arm completely, leaving my elbow stuck out slightly.

[itsnoteasy]

All valid points. With no answer? I guess, because the questions you pose have never been raised whenever I play. I just do what comes naturally to me, in as much that I'm not fighting or forcing myself into a position that I am not comfortable with. However one point you raise that maybe valid? Due to a bike accident, I cannot straighten out my bridge arm completely, leaving my elbow stuck out slightly.

Cheers Djax, as long as you can cue straight and hit where you want on the object ball consistently,that's the important bits. Do you play a bit stand upish, we have a few old boys who can't get down on the shot anymore, they still knock in fifty plus breaks regularly.

[djax]

Cheers Djax, as long as you can cue straight and hit where you want on the object ball consistently,that's the important bits. Do you play a bit stand upish, we have a few old boys who can't get down on the shot anymore, they still knock in fifty plus breaks regularly.

Funny and very relevant you should ask that? Just recently I've been going through a period of poor form. Now that's as you know, is usually down to errors creeping into our CB address routine? Decided to systematically go through each phase. Over a month couldn't find that I was doing much wrong or different. Then I had one of those moments of enlightenment. Perhaps I wasn't getting down low enough? Yes that was the solution. Problem wasn't or isn't hard getting down? I believe it's crept in overtime, exactly because I do use a shorter cue - it encourages you to remain more upright.

Ps. I also have Cork handlebar tape wrapped around the grip area. Love the tactile feel of it.

[Catch 22]

Who is JVC ?
I really like my 59" fishing rod, been playing really well with it, also put on some kind of laminated/layered tip, think it might be a Phoenix ??

I too play with a 59" gbl with a pheonix tip on it . Love it

[Cannonball]

This is Cue Porn! As for the Shorter cueing...forget it! As its useless unless you know what else is going on besides. I'll assume you don't, hence your post.
Form should be relevant...relative...relentless... Get those right (sometimes i do...i really do) then you have nirvana!

In addition. I'd like to point out that since i moved areas, i have hardly played at all. Which has given me chance to think about my game more, and allowed me to understand in greater detail what i want and what it was. So yet again i'd like to dismiss all the claims that practise is critical and blah blah blah...also the cue ball versus object ball argument. I'm sorry...but any coaches out there who dismiss the cue ball method are only discrediting themselves!

Also my time spent away from the table has made me more hungry. So whats not to like???

I'm a keen examiner of set-up as members will know and i've explored every grip, stance, cue action, etc. It's all interesting stuff to me. I think I'm actually only using 54.5" of the cue, not the 55" I stated last night (that's the result of mixing grape and grain). I do get as low down as I can and this definitely reduces the amount of cue one needs. Apart from that, I'm foot-in-line, left foot forward and slightly out to the left, feet shoulder width apart, pretty standard stuff. My arms are in proportion to my 6' of height (shirt sleeves tend to be too high if anything) and once down, cueing under the nipple and R side of the chin (R eye dominant), bridge arm forward with the upper left arm parallel to the cue (8"BtB), I'm using 54.5" of the cue as measured by a friend.

As for practice, Hendry practised 8hrs a day. Ronnie puts in quite a few hours before the WSCs. But you say we shouldn't practice! :biggrin-new: Judd went through a crap period where he'd just practice for an hour either side of lunch. He's upped that and his form has returned somewhat. Robbo puts in a lot of practice. All the top pros do to my knowledge. Davis was the same. So I'm wondering where the evidence for your practice hypothesis comes from?

Hendry would flick between the cue ball, OB, pocket and back to the OB when shooting. Ronnie looks at the OB I believe. I can't think of any pro who plays the CB with their eyes. Personally, I tested out my good mates theory that if you're good, it doesn't matter; you can look at the OB, CB or pocket. And he was right, when confidence is good and you cue straight, if you line it up correctly, 10/10 should be possible by looking at the OB, CB or pocket. I added a test to his test, play the long blue with your eyes shut. Incredibly, you can pot this ball dead weight as long as your cue delivery is as close to perfect as possible. He had a couple of goes, 0/2. I asked him if his cue action was ok - LOL! 147 player and he's got me on his case. :biggrin-new: But generally, most players are OB sighters and they tend to find that if they look at the CB, they'll push the cue and consistently miss to the same knuckle. Some folk can look at the CB and this doesn't happen. Why? I don't know. Maybe they're L eye dominant, maybe those who have to look at the OB are R eye dominant? Dunno.

@JVC, what do members say to you when you rock up to tha club and say that oft repeated line of yours, check this, I've got a new cue. :biggrin-new:

[tomlimcj]

Nowadays i just focus on getting everything that matters on the line of shot. Bridge, mastereye, chin for that matter, grip and standing foot. Once these constants are in place, the other thing is the posture that ensures ur waggles are straight down the line. This is where everybody will be different as everybody's body structure is different. Which will ultimately determine how long ur cue is going to have to be. Once u have ur constants and ur waggles down the line all the time, u should have no trouble finding out the desired length of ur cue. Of cos, its harder if u start out wif a shorter cue. Ur posture might require you to stretch forward that bridge arm to waggle down the line, den u will spend alot of time tweaking around with the wrong cue length. Start with a longer cue, 58.5" is enough for 6foot player. Den work from there...

[Cannonball]

Great post^

This chap is on the money.

[tomlimcj]

Great post^

This chap is on the money.

If it interests u mate, go youtube and search for Manpower Snooker Coach Session Barry Stark. In the vids, he asked each member to get down to their most comfortable position with the cuetip as close to the cueball as possible. There he made some measurements, claims the desired bridge distance is 9 inches to 12 inches, then goes on to adjust every player to make sure they are at their optimal posture regardless of cue length. Optimal being ur cueing arm drops perpendicular down from the elbow, maybe angling back just slightly. The bridge arm stretches out, but not too stretch nor too bent.

Going back to my own theory above, im around 9inches bridge distance. For my posture, i am required to swing my butt a tad to the right for my waggles to be straight. Its like Robertson's posture except his cueing elbow hangs out to the side alot more.

Im 6" exact. Im using a 57" with 0.5inch butt hanging out. Yet my optimal cue length is 58" with 0.5inch butt hanging out. This allows me to put more follow through to my shot but the extra inch means im going to have to adjust my bridge distance to 10inches and i feel uncomfortable making that change. Besides it means getting another cue so... zzz

How did i know i need a longer cue? I put on the mini butt to measure my optimal length lol.

[Cannonball]

Cheers bud. I've moved the other way, by choosing a set-up then adjusting the cue length. I used to have a 57" cue, then bought a 58" believing I needed a longer cue like friends. But I've moved up the cue to about 55" and that's me having a forearm that makes a 90 degree angle to the cue on contact. My coach said years ago that I was making a 95 degree angle by using most of the 58" cue and he was right, I was long cueing. He's seen me now and he's happy. But like you say, a lot is about stance and posture and how much length we need from that so I guess I've got a quite compact stance and posture as we're the same height. Nothing wrong with how Robbo does things, beautiful cueist at times, great long ball accuracy. If I held the cue longer, I could generate more spin but I'm happy with my max power and at times it's too much, so I've made this compromise to increase accuracy and accept a small drop in power. It hurts on really slow tables but on most tables the compromise is better for me. Thanks for your advice, I'll check that video.

[itsnoteasy]

I don't like the title of this thread, it doesn't do it any justice, short cueing to me sounds like jabbing, or having a tiny backswing but what you are really discussing is proper cueing with a cue longer than you need.