Help appreciated!

[Marfling]

Hi all,

I haven't exactly contributed a lot to this coaching forum since I joined late last year, mainly because I don't think I know enough about technique to help anyone. Since joining though, I have (sadly!) probably read the majority of threads in an attempt to learn more about good technique.

I picked snooker up again just before Christmas after a 6 or 7 year break, having played it for 10 years very regularly before stopping. I played in the local league with a highest break of 67. Highest practice break is 87 (twice), so I guess I can pot.

My problem is one I've read many times on this forum, a frustrated player stuck in a rut basically! Not really improving a great deal and most frustratingly just wildly inconsistent. I just want to try and be the best I can be and I feel I'm nowhere near that right now.

I've seen two coaches and they both said I set up ok. The second coach I saw changed my stance to get more hip clearance because he noticed I was cueing around my hip. This also seemed to be affecting my alignment a little, but the general takeaway was that I have the fundamentals down quite well. Trouble is, when I saw both coaches I actually potted quite well so it probably didn't seem like I was struggling too much!

One of the main areas I think I have a problem with is my cue arm shoulder. It's hidden behind the head most of the time but it's not as high up as it could be and I feel like the shoulder is getting involved too early in the shot. Sometimes I get down and it feels more solid and braced, but I can't seem to get in that position consistently, despite trying a few things recommended on here (most from that epic cue arm & shoulder thread).

Anyway long story short, I filmed myself doing a bit of a line up and was very, very surprised how much movement I have. I'm actually surprised I can pot anything. But I wondered if I make the video available to you guys, one or two of you might spare 5 minutes to have a look and see if you can spot anything else that might help?

It would be very gratefully appreciated. I'm losing my marbles with this game!

Many thanks in advance,

Martin

[Big Splash!]

Defo, boost the video, there are some knowledgeable folk on here for ya mate. Part of it may be tension as well, this can induce movement and twitching and putting the shoulder into the shot. It's a reaction to tension, fear of missing, slight lack of confidence. I think that because you've hit the 80s and not hit a ton, summat like that may be affecting your game. Mental is like 50% of the game when you get to your level. Below 50 and technical flaws are key. I'm not saying your coaches are wrong or you are wrong because if you've seen it on video, then it's on video. But I'm wondering why it happens to you, me and others sometimes.

What did Bruce Lee say, 'empty your mind, be water my friend'?

Easier said than done but there are techniques to overcome stress if that's part of the equation. Excuse me if I've chucked something in the mixer that ain't there. Look fwd to your video.

[the lone wolf]

Hi all,

I haven't exactly contributed a lot to this coaching forum since I joined late last year, mainly because I don't think I know enough about technique to help anyone. Since joining though, I have (sadly!) probably read the majority of threads in an attempt to learn more about good technique.

I picked snooker up again just before Christmas after a 6 or 7 year break, having played it for 10 years very regularly before stopping. I played in the local league with a highest break of 67. Highest practice break is 87 (twice), so I guess I can pot.

My problem is one I've read many times on this forum, a frustrated player stuck in a rut basically! Not really improving a great deal and most frustratingly just wildly inconsistent. I just want to try and be the best I can be and I feel I'm nowhere near that right now.

I've seen two coaches and they both said I set up ok. The second coach I saw changed my stance to get more hip clearance because he noticed I was cueing around my hip. This also seemed to be affecting my alignment a little, but the general takeaway was that I have the fundamentals down quite well. Trouble is, when I saw both coaches I actually potted quite well so it probably didn't seem like I was struggling too much!

One of the main areas I think I have a problem with is my cue arm shoulder. It's hidden behind the head most of the time but it's not as high up as it could be and I feel like the shoulder is getting involved too early in the shot. Sometimes I get down and it feels more solid and braced, but I can't seem to get in that position consistently, despite trying a few things recommended on here (most from that epic cue arm & shoulder thread).

Anyway long story short, I filmed myself doing a bit of a line up and was very, very surprised how much movement I have. I'm actually surprised I can pot anything. But I wondered if I make the video available to you guys, one or two of you might spare 5 minutes to have a look and see if you can spot anything else that might help?

It would be very gratefully appreciated. I'm losing my marbles with this game!

Many thanks in advance,

Martin

Better to lose your marbles rather than your balls. Then you won't be able to pot anything :roll eyes:

Am sure if you posted your video plenty here will share their 2 shillings... :snooker:

[tedisbill]

Yes stick it up mate. Although, be prepared for a lot of advise from people who don't know what they're talking about

[Marfling]

Hi Big Splash,

I think you make a good point there mate, there is definitely a lack of confidence and fear of missing. I just don't trust my cue action, especially under pressure. And with that mindset, the mental side of my game doesn't stand a chance.

Weirdly, I had those 80 breaks when I first started playing and not really come close to them since. Had a few 50s and 60s but they're quite rare.

I do need to be more water too! Constantly thinking about technique is a recipe for disaster but right now if I didn't think about a couple of things, I think I's be even worse!

Thanks for your input mate, really appreciate it. Uploading the vid to YT but it's taking an age.

Defo, boost the video, there are some knowledgeable folk on here for ya mate. Part of it may be tension as well, this can induce movement and twitching and putting the shoulder into the shot. It's a reaction to tension, fear of missing, slight lack of confidence. I think that because you've hit the 80s and not hit a ton, summat like that may be affecting your game. Mental is like 50% of the game when you get to your level. Below 50 and technical flaws are key. I'm not saying your coaches are wrong or you are wrong because if you've seen it on video, then it's on video. But I'm wondering why it happens to you, me and others sometimes.

What did Bruce Lee say, 'empty your mind, be water my friend'?

Easier said than done but there are techniques to overcome stress if that's part of the equation. Excuse me if I've chucked something in the mixer that ain't there. Look fwd to your video.

[Marfling]

Ha! Very true. Maybe I should play with marbles, the pockets would be bigger.

Better to lose your marbles rather than your balls. Then you won't be able to pot anything :roll eyes:

Am sure if you posted your video plenty here will share their 2 shillings... :snooker:

[Marfling]

I'll watch out for that, cheers! Any input from yourself would be greatly appreciated. It's just uploading now.

I actually followed some of your threads with interest. Especially your mission to get that cue arm shoulder in a nicer position.

Yes stick it up mate. Although, be prepared for a lot of advise from people who don't know what they're talking about

[Marfling]

Finally finished uploading! Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBEV5n5iZZg

For some reason it looks like it was filmed using a microwave, apologies for that. I'll try and get it uploaded in better quality when I know how to. I also have another one that's filmed side on taken on another day that might help get a better view of grip and stance too. May as well start uploading that!

Like I said, I'm quite shocked at the amount of movement so that has to go. I might need to lift my head a little on the shot as I may be raising my head to look at the OB. Keeping still is apparently hard for me.

I hate the way my cue arm shoulder hangs over to the side and isn't inline. You can see it quite well on the blue I play to the black corner pocket towards the end. I cue slightly under my left eye too, so I've got a pretty exaggerated 'zig zag'. I'd love to get that shoulder in line just for my own piece of mind!

At 1.35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNxE_rxr-90 I think ROS is left eye dominant and his cue arm shoulder's well out of the equation without too much twisting or being particularly low down. It's not like he's practiced more than me and has lots more talent.

Any thoughts/ideas would be most welcome.

Cheers,

Martin

[tedisbill]

Absolutely nothing to worry about in my opinion. Slight movement on the shot, but just try and minimise that on key shots. Other than that, everything that's important, you do nicely. Nice rhythm to your feathers, controlled backswing, and a nice smooth delivery. Approach to the shot is pretty good and consistent. So now, you just need lots of practice to improve. Unfortunately there isn't a quick fix or thing you can do that will massively improve your cueing and potting.

[Shockerz]

Absolutely nothing to worry about in my opinion. Slight movement on the shot, but just try and minimise that on key shots. Other than that, everything that's important, you do nicely. Nice rhythm to your feathers, controlled backswing, and a nice smooth delivery. Approach to the shot is pretty good and consistent. So now, you just need lots of practice to improve. Unfortunately there isn't a quick fix or thing you can do that will massively improve your cueing and potting.

I was told by a coach once that I should bring the cue tip to the centre of the cue ball before starting feathers as this tells us we have started on the line.

I was feathering before I had done this as in the video; when I started to do this I could sometimes see that I was fractionally off centre and putting unwanted side on the cue ball.

Do you think that's right tedisbill as I notice that Marfling feathers like I used to which used to catch me out on the longer pots. Only an observation as it looks nice and smooth to me....

[tedisbill]

Shockerz:

Not important in my opinion. If that made you feel comfortable, then great. I don't do that, Shaun Murphy doesn't do it, and neither does Ronald!!

Things like that for me, would not be that you HAVE to do it, more that you CAN do it, if it makes you feel better.

[Marfling]

Good to hear, cheers tedisbill. Thanks for taking a look. Will try and minimise the movement on key shots. I've got another vid and my head rises a good inch or so on some shots, others I can be perfectly still.

How many hours do you put in?

Absolutely nothing to worry about in my opinion. Slight movement on the shot, but just try and minimise that on key shots. Other than that, everything that's important, you do nicely. Nice rhythm to your feathers, controlled backswing, and a nice smooth delivery. Approach to the shot is pretty good and consistent. So now, you just need lots of practice to improve. Unfortunately there isn't a quick fix or thing you can do that will massively improve your cueing and potting.

[Marfling]

I did actually start doing that for a while Shockerz, after watching those Del Hill videos online. Tip to ball, aiming, chest to cue. It does give you a little more of a feeling that you're on the line and addressing the white where you intend to. I think it upset my rhythm too much though.

[Shockerz]

Shockerz:

Not important in my opinion. If that made you feel comfortable, then great. I don't do that, Shaun Murphy doesn't do it, and neither does Ronald!!

Things like that for me, would not be that you HAVE to do it, more that you CAN do it, if it makes you feel better.

Yeah I'm still on the fence with it if i'm honest, I got it so I built it into my routine and it felt fine. I've tried to be a little less technical for a couple of months and just do you r thing and I noticed it's disappeared again!!

Marfling - I guess any change will upset rhythm for a while, always difficult to make a decision to stay with things if you're not confident they are for you.

[the lone wolf]

IMO - Just concentrate on your game and achieving the best you can.
Your technique is based on the classic style and there is nothing wrong with it.
IF you listen to too many opinions your game will be screwed forever without progress.
--
RE; Coaches - Bad coaches have the tendency to correct too much to justify their own existence. Sometimes a good coach will say nothing.
--
I once received coaching (American Pool) - My coach got me to not think of two-way shots and I believed him.
Then I hit the pro circuit and watched all the top pro's making two-way shots!
Took me a whole f&%king year to forget the coaching principles that had been instilled into me...
--
Stick to your guns and have self-belief :snooker: