Trying to improve backswing

[Looter]

Hi all

I've been trying to tinker with my technique in a bid to improve my game, so I've watched a few top players on the internet and I've noticed on their backswing they bring their cue almost back to their thumb on their bridge hand, particularly on power shots. This is really noticeable in O'Sullivan's and Ricky Walden's backswing. I've tried to do the same but my timing goes right out of the window and miss the object ball altogether! I don't have too much trouble with screwing the ball as I follow through well but I'm struggling with the backswing (along with the final pause). Has anyone got any hints on how I can improve this?

Thanks for any replies!

[Big Splash!]

Hi all

I've been trying to tinker with my technique in a bid to improve my game, so I've watched a few top players on the internet and I've noticed on their backswing they bring their cue almost back to their thumb on their bridge hand, particularly on power shots. This is really noticeable in O'Sullivan's and Ricky Walden's backswing. I've tried to do the same but my timing goes right out of the window and miss the object ball altogether! I don't have too much trouble with screwing the ball as I follow through well but I'm struggling with the backswing (along with the final pause). Has anyone got any hints on how I can improve this?

Thanks for any replies!

Yes. Firstly, it's not a backswing, you're not hitting a tennis ball. Understanding this is key. It's a gentle backward motion with little force. Then pause, really pause, for half a second or more. Say the word pause when you arrive at the rear point. Then the delivery with constant acceleration on to the correct contact point on the CB. If you're missing the OB, then you probably are swinging the cue out then inwards and hitting across the CB, which would account missing the OB. You have to remember that folk like ROS and Selby do bring the tip to the bridge and can do so because they have a shorter bridge to ball distance. The ideal BtB is around 8-9''. Get a friend to measure yours. If it's anything like 11 inches, you'll be taking the cue out way past your hip to get tip to the bridge, then swinging it back inwards, cueing across the ball.. The solution then is to learn to bring your grip hand up the cue butt a couple of inches, so you've got a shorter BtB. Beware, this change can take months to get used to but is very worthwhile. What sort of grip do you have? If you want to get all the way back to the bridge with the tip, you'll need to open the grip right up, so the cue is resting on the pinkie (but still with the ring of the thumb and forefinger intact for stability). You need to keep the cue on the correct shot-line no matter what the shot. Straight cueing under all circumstances is the gold standard. I got this from a gold coach.

[Looter]

Yes. Firstly, it's not a backswing, you're not hitting a tennis ball. Understanding this is key. It's a gentle backward motion with little force. Then pause, really pause, for half a second or more. Say the word pause when you arrive at the rear point. Then the delivery with constant acceleration on to the correct contact point on the CB. If you're missing the OB, then you probably are swinging the cue out then inwards and hitting across the CB, which would account missing the OB. You have to remember that folk like ROS and Selby do bring the tip to the bridge and can do so because they have a shorter bridge to ball distance. The ideal BtB is around 8-9''. Get a friend to measure yours. If it's anything like 11 inches, you'll be taking the cue out way past your hip to get tip to the bridge, then swinging it back inwards, cueing across the ball.. The solution then is to learn to bring your grip hand up the cue butt a couple of inches, so you've got a shorter BtB. Beware, this change can take months to get used to but is very worthwhile. What sort of grip do you have? If you want to get all the way back to the bridge with the tip, you'll need to open the grip right up, so the cue is resting on the pinkie (but still with the ring of the thumb and forefinger intact for stability). You need to keep the cue on the correct shot-line no matter what the shot. Straight cueing under all circumstances is the gold standard. I got this from a gold coach.

That's a lot of food for thought, thanks! My grips is right at the end of the cue. I read somewhere that the cue length should be somewhere around the underarm, and with being at 5ft 4in it was a lot higher so I got a cuemaker to take 3in off it's length years ago, maybe I needed to adjust my technique to compensate for it, maybe by having a shorter BtB?

[Shockerz]

Yes. Firstly, it's not a backswing, you're not hitting a tennis ball. Understanding this is key. It's a gentle backward motion with little force. Then pause, really pause, for half a second or more. Say the word pause when you arrive at the rear point. Then the delivery with constant acceleration on to the correct contact point on the CB. If you're missing the OB, then you probably are swinging the cue out then inwards and hitting across the CB, which would account missing the OB. You have to remember that folk like ROS and Selby do bring the tip to the bridge and can do so because they have a shorter bridge to ball distance. The ideal BtB is around 8-9''. Get a friend to measure yours. If it's anything like 11 inches, you'll be taking the cue out way past your hip to get tip to the bridge, then swinging it back inwards, cueing across the ball.. The solution then is to learn to bring your grip hand up the cue butt a couple of inches, so you've got a shorter BtB. Beware, this change can take months to get used to but is very worthwhile. What sort of grip do you have? If you want to get all the way back to the bridge with the tip, you'll need to open the grip right up, so the cue is resting on the pinkie (but still with the ring of the thumb and forefinger intact for stability). You need to keep the cue on the correct shot-line no matter what the shot. Straight cueing under all circumstances is the gold standard. I got this from a gold coach.

Constant acceleration hmmmm .

We used to have fun at work trying to explain that term to apprentices, the offside rule was easier!

The rate of increase in change of speed was constant.......maybe not

[Big Splash!]

That's a lot of food for thought, thanks! My grips is right at the end of the cue. I read somewhere that the cue length should be somewhere around the underarm, and with being at 5ft 4in it was a lot higher so I got a cuemaker to take 3in off it's length years ago, maybe I needed to adjust my technique to compensate for it, maybe by having a shorter BtB?

Recently, on the forum, we've been through this whole cue length thing. There is no right or wrong length for each height of person. It depends how you set up, what type of stance you have, etc. I used to use most of my 58'' cue and I'm 6'. I think my BtB back then was about 11''. I'm holding the cue at 54'' and my BtB is about 8'' now. People think they need longer cues, I don't know why, when we see great players with short BtBs. They probably think they need more 'backswing' (no dig to you intended). Maybe only Jimmy got away with a long BtB but he was special but he'd lose the CB a lot and his CB control was never as good as Davis/Hendry. That's the other thing I've found. That a shorter BtB also leads to more control and better break building. But there are some like I Never Miss Blue on here with longer BtB and they hit the big numbers and make it work. So it's really about what works for you. You can try a shorter BtB (it feels really weird at first) and move your hand up the butt. Tape it if you like with some electrical tape, so you know where your hand should be. It takes a while to get used to. I had a quick go at a longer BtB recently and it felt like I was using a rest. Horrible now.

How long is your cue now?

[Big Splash!]

Constant acceleration hmmmm .

We used to have fun at work trying to explain that term to apprentices, the offside rule was easier!

The rate of increase in change of speed was constant.......maybe not

haha, poor guys. They should have done Physics classes. When the acceleration isn't constant is when we snatch or jerk the shot or play like pool players!

[Looter]

Recently, on the forum, we've been through this whole cue length thing. There is no right or wrong length for each height of person. It depends how you set up, what type of stance you have, etc. I used to use most of my 58'' cue and I'm 6'. I think my BtB back then was about 11''. I'm holding the cue at 54'' and my BtB is about 8'' now. People think they need longer cues, I don't know why, when we see great players with short BtBs. They probably think they need more 'backswing' (no dig to you intended). Maybe only Jimmy got away with a long BtB but he was special but he'd lose the CB a lot and his CB control was never as good as Davis/Hendry. That's the other thing I've found. That a shorter BtB also leads to more control and better break building. But there are some like I Never Miss Blue on here with longer BtB and they hit the big numbers and make it work. So it's really about what works for you. You can try a shorter BtB (it feels really weird at first) and move your hand up the butt. Tape it if you like with some electrical tape, so you know where your hand should be. It takes a while to get used to. I had a quick go at a longer BtB recently and it felt like I was using a rest. Horrible now.

How long is your cue now?

It's 54in, I play well with it at times, my highest break is 97 and get regular 50-60 breaks with it. My technique is a bit "jabby" though and I think it's that that's holding me back.

[Big Splash!]

It's 54in, I play well with it at times, my highest break is 97 and get regular 50-60 breaks with it. My technique is a bit "jabby" though and I think it's that that's holding me back.

You've got a solid game there mate. Try holding it a couple of inches up the butt. Tape it. If it doesn't work after a while in solo practice (line-up), bin it. How long have you been playing and how old are you? Excuse my rudeness please.

On jabbyness; take the cue back, say 'paws' to yourself, then execute the shot. You've already made the shot decision, so you won't forget what to do by saying a word. Very few can play well without a pause, maybe just Jimmy and Alex come to mind, though Jimmy is very smooth without one. But mortals tend to need one. Don't be tempted to think that taking the cue back quickly will do any good, it won't. It just gets you to the rear point faster, it adds nothing to power or control and can ruin accuracy.

*And why are you called Looter; that's a good name.

[tedisbill]

This forum is absolutely amazing. I love it

[j6uk]

Hi all

I've been trying to tinker with my technique in a bid to improve my game, so I've watched a few top players on the internet and I've noticed on their backswing they bring their cue almost back to their thumb on their bridge hand, particularly on power shots. This is really noticeable in O'Sullivan's and Ricky Walden's backswing. I've tried to do the same but my timing goes right out of the window and miss the object ball altogether! I don't have too much trouble with screwing the ball as I follow through well but I'm struggling with the backswing (along with the final pause). Has anyone got any hints on how I can improve this?

Thanks for any replies!

on my final pause at the white i like to flick my eyes to my ferrule and watch the cue come slowly back, then around half way through the bs my eyes flick to focus on the ob, and in that timing i feel theres an automatic pause before pulling the trigger

[Crixus]

This forum is absolutely amazing. I love it

You are slowly turning into a right arrogant ****e Ted. Give your head a wobble will ya! Only joking bud, come on tell us where we're all going wrong ��
.

[markz]

You are slowly turning into a right arrogant ****e Ted. Give your head a wobble will ya! Only joking bud, come on tell us where we're all going wrong ��
.

I think ted is probably thinking the guy posting the thread has a high break of 97 and gets 50-60 breaks regular. There can't be much wrong with what he's doing and as nobody on here has seen him play they can't really help on his backswing or pause. It would be different giving advice if he had actually posted up a video.

[jimmymoller]

If your doing regular 50-60 breaks there's only one thing wrong. Your listening to and watching other folks way too much.
For example there's a load of crap spoken about feathering and the final pause. Ever watched Marco Fu play? He hardly ever feathers or pauses he just lines the shot up and pushes forward. Okay very few play like that but it just goes to show there is no right or wrong way and changing your cue action can do far more damage than good, especially in your case as you have obviously put the table time in to get to your level why start over?

[Big Splash!]

You are slowly turning into a right arrogant ****e Ted. Give your head a wobble will ya! Only joking bud, come on tell us where we're all going wrong ��
.

I suspect the OP is not hitting 50/60s every session but only occasionally, maybe every couple of months. I also suspect the OPs high 97 is long ago. Hence my advice. If he was hitting 50s/60s every session he probably wouldn't be asking for advice. If he IS hitting 50s/60s every session and is seeking advice, he probably wants to get a ton and hit single visit frame winning breaks. Either way, if he's jabbing the ball and missing the OB(as he states!) there's room for improvement. It's good someone wants to improve and work on technique. So many don't or revert to buying cues, trying to shop their way out of a problem that's merely mental and mechanical.

That's a great phrase I've just come up with:

Snooker = mental + mechanical.

Maybe Ted is being infected by Pottr arrogance?! T147/INMB come across differently, as does Byrom/J6. As I've said before, we are all in the same class, the class that won't be going to the Crucible.

@Looter; can you do a video as Markz suggests? Maybe IBSF coaches like Terry Davidson could help you then. Cheaper than seeing a coach in person. lol

@molly; it's you talking crap. No-one has mentioned feathers. Marco is a good cueist and has a large amount of tons on the board. But he pauses before delivering like almost all great players. It works for him BUT, Marco lacks cue power and not feathering does not help I believe. Only Jimmy has ever really got away without a pause but he feathers and has terrific cue power. Few folk have the fingers and rhythm to deliver without a pause well. Feathers aren't strictly needed but most do them to get a feel for weight of shot and to help them deliver the cue straight and on line. A robot wouldn't feather, it would hit the CB in the right place and create terrific spin if programmed. We aren't robots.

[tomwalker147]

This forum is absolutely amazing. I love it

Highest break of 97 and you're asking how to bring your cue back/nearly missing the object ball, is this a wind up?