The forward stroke, in the cue action

[itsnoteasy]

In my game everything seems to be about my grip, if I can stop it getting involved I can play to a half decent club standard but I have two issues with it, one is closing too soon, but the other is ,at the end of the backswing I have a pause, then because I have come to a stop I have to get my cue going again. These first couple or three inches can be a killer to me as I can use my hand to get my cue going ,and of course that's the grip involved way way too early, or worse a little bit of shoulder,what's the answer to getting the cue going again, without use of the hand, thanks Jim.

[guernseygooner]

You're a leftie. Do find it worse potting to your right?

[itsnoteasy]

Funnily enough GG not really trouble potting to the right but my timing is worse, say trying to hold a long red for the black or pink,when just off straight to the right, then the cue ball will leak away, but on the other side I can stun hold it ok.

[guernseygooner]

Funnily enough GG not really trouble potting to the right but my timing is worse, say trying to hold a long red for the black or pink,when just off straight to the right, then the cue ball will leak away, but on the other side I can stun hold it ok.

Just a thought to not start messing with grip. I find a lot of problems are a consequence from not getting the stance right on the walk in (I had started going too boxer). I was getting lazy and not getting the feet in the right place for me. Started missing balls off straight to right middle thin and left middle thick (leftie too). Like you thought it was grip related as you can feel that tension in the arm and shoulder at the end of the backswing and then the shoulder comes in/body moves.

Concentrating where I planted the feet for a while so that I was comfy and balanced until it became second nature fixed the problem for me - cue goes through with no tension.

I think this is where the whole practice hours debate comes in. I could have plodded on for hours getting frustrated whacking balls about seeing zero improvement. If you can become more self aware of your action, you can get maximum benefit in an hour.

[Byrom]

Premature on yer stroke Jim - happens to a few men of a certain age.

Perhaps try a few things - Practice imagining the cue going through the white like you trying to crack an egg accelerate on the last stroke but let the cue do the work - don't close the grip until you are thro the white even then close it smoother don't strangle it.
Maybe you put your shoulder into it because you think you need to get through the white few things you could try - maybe get more compact shorter bridge or adjusting your stance perhaps might help stop this or bring the cue back straight and slower but before you accelerate through the white try visualise the cue going thro the white straight and push it through to that point see if that helps.

I saw one kid get taught off a top coach supposedly he was saying - stop at the white pause feather feather then back then pause again then through - I mean what's the point in doing all that?
So I asked him - he did not know but said it was recognised technique.#

I think work out what you want pause at the front or at the back but the pause should be a natural thing - it happens for me as I transfer me eyes to where I am aiming and helps time the shot.
Everyone's stroke is different you cant say one way is better than another if the person doing it keeps consistent with it.
Consistent is the key word.

Feathers are to help feel the weight of the shot and timing and such but if you feather then pause then feather then bring it back then pause what's the point in feathering?

Only you can find what works best for you Jim. End of the day if you ask someone who has the best cue action they say Ronnie or Lee or Murphy or Hendry..... how many would say Selby? or Allen?
Who taught the other two - can you imagine a young Selby and Allen being taught to not move his head on the shot or Mark Allen not to fick/jab it - these so called 'pro snooker coaches' would have ruined them altering their technique - but thank God they both learned their way and became good players yeah?

Technique is over rated - practice and consistency in what you do and keeping it simple and learning better shot selection is far more important in my opinion mate..

[Big Splash!]

Premature on yer stroke Jim - happens to a few men of a certain age.

Perhaps try a few things - Practice imagining the cue going through the white like you trying to crack an egg accelerate on the last stroke but let the cue do the work - don't close the grip until you are thro the white even then close it smoother don't strangle it.
Maybe you put your shoulder into it because you think you need to get through the white few things you could try - maybe get more compact shorter bridge or adjusting your stance perhaps might help stop this or bring the cue back straight and slower but before you accelerate through the white try visualise the cue going thro the white straight and push it through to that point see if that helps.

I saw one kid get taught off a top coach supposedly he was saying - stop at the white pause feather feather then back then pause again then through - I mean what's the point in doing all that?
So I asked him - he did not know but said it was recognised technique.#

I think work out what you want pause at the front or at the back but the pause should be a natural thing - it happens for me as I transfer me eyes to where I am aiming and helps time the shot.
Everyone's stroke is different you cant say one way is better than another if the person doing it keeps consistent with it.
Consistent is the key word.

Feathers are to help feel the weight of the shot and timing and such but if you feather then pause then feather then bring it back then pause what's the point in feathering?

Only you can find what works best for you Jim. End of the day if you ask someone who has the best cue action they say Ronnie or Lee or Murphy or Hendry..... how many would say Selby? or Allen?
Who taught the other two - can you imagine a young Selby and Allen being taught to not move his head on the shot or Mark Allen not to fick/jab it - these so called 'pro snooker coaches' would have ruined them altering their technique - but thank God they both learned their way and became good players yeah?

Technique is over rated - practice and consistency in what you do and keeping it simple and learning better shot selection is far more important in my opinion mate..

Got to disagree with you there pal. Read my signature.

[Byrom]

well of course you need a technique - especially in the beginning and I did mention some possible changes to him for his problem. I saw him play and he can make tons on line up and does actually have a good technique so I don't really think he has a problem apart from two areas .... 1. his own head/ and 2. I think he suffers not playing enough matches against people - playing better players more often and therefore learning better shot selection.

I do think many people do actually get to a decent standard later on at snooker and still tweak and tweak have good days and purple patches then a bad day - cant accept it and try and change things and they never get consistent enough to progress past this bit - I just value the last line I said a bit more.

[itsnoteasy]

GG I can't argue with that, I go through it when I get lazy, not sure the shot looks right when down so doubt creeps in and of course quickly followed by tension, but you said exactly what I do to fix that , fix my shot routine, or I should say do it rather than fix it.
I have a natural back pause but I think as my eyes have got worse( I genuinely can't see the ball when doing long blues
For the first half dozen shots until my eyes come into focus, I think that's why I'm just as good with my eyes shut)
Because of this the end of my backswing has become a full stop rather than a pause, and it's too long, maybe a different eye rhythm is needed so I get a change of direction instead of a stop start. Byrom I don't know how you get better or find consistency without technique, that may be different to others but I can't do things consistent, that's why I can knock in an eighty and clear the line up one week and struggle with a forty and half the line up the next when practicing, i know I'm doing something wrong and it needs fixing and this stop start cue action is a definite no no.

[Csmith]

I've had similar problems over the years and they still crop up from time to time. A couple years ago I practiced with my thumb off the cue entirely, that way you can't engage the grip to pull the cue through. It took a few sessions, but eventually I was stopped gripping the cue too early.

[itsnoteasy]

I would like to add, it's hard to teach someone something when you are good at it, it's easy to forget how hard they find the simplest of things. I stuck a dart board up in the kitchen for my lad, hadn't thrown a dart in fifteen years, hit three one eighties in under a half hours practice. I tried to show him how to throw, and I couldn't understand why he couldn't do it as it seems so so simple to me, but my technique is ingrained in me forever, it's just fine tuning that's needed, doesn't matter how long I'm away from the board.

[guernseygooner]

GG I can't argue with that, I go through it when I get lazy, not sure the shot looks right when down so doubt creeps in and of course quickly followed by tension, but you said exactly what I do to fix that , fix my shot routine, or I should say do it rather than fix it.
I have a natural back pause but I think as my eyes have got worse( I genuinely can't see the ball when doing long blues
For the first half dozen shots until my eyes come into focus, I think that's why I'm just as good with my eyes shut)
Because of this the end of my backswing has become a full stop rather than a pause, and it's too long, maybe a different eye rhythm is needed so I get a change of direction instead of a stop start. Byrom I don't know how you get better or find consistency without technique, that may be different to others but I can't do things consistent, that's why I can knock in an eighty and clear the line up one week and struggle with a forty and half the line up the next when practicing, i know I'm doing something wrong and it needs fixing and this stop start cue action is a definite no no.

Maybe the old trick of not thinking of anything and saying a word in your head to match the cue rhythm you are after will help. As usual, you will get lots of well intentioned advice but it will come down to you to find what works.

One thing I will say though. I used to fret about technique a lot and had never seen a coach until I paid Del Hill a visit. He only worked on getting feet position and approach right for me. Wasn't bothered about anything else I brought up, said it was fine. Gave me my 'dummy' to think of if struggling and I ended up having my best ever season 20 years after what I consider was my best form.

Hope you get it sorted

[jonny66]

I think I have the same problem mate, but it's like you say, I find a solution and it lasts for about 20 minutes, then im **** again.

[j6uk]

In my game everything seems to be about my grip, if I can stop it getting involved I can play to a half decent club standard but I have two issues with it, one is closing too soon, but the other is ,at the end of the backswing I have a pause, then because I have come to a stop I have to get my cue going again. These first couple or three inches can be a killer to me as I can use my hand to get my cue going ,and of course that's the grip involved way way too early, or worse a little bit of shoulder,what's the answer to getting the cue going again, without use of the hand, thanks Jim.

when i hold the cue lightly from the elbow the cue feels heavy in the hands that and that tells me theres more freedom, more control, and straighter cueing,
in this vid i try to exaggerate this by slowing down the delivery and opening my had completely, so as to see the timing at the end of the stroke

[itsnoteasy]

That's great J, can I ask, when you say trust the elbow, what does that mean? can you explain where the energy for the start of the forward stroke comes from, this may sound daft but I can tell you are doing it differently from me, even though it may look the same, I know something like that is really hard to explain and maybe it can't be over the Internet.
My trouble is definitely in the first three inches of the forward stroke.

[j6uk]

That's great J, can I ask, when you say trust the elbow, what does that mean? can you explain where the energy for the start of the forward stroke comes from, this may sound daft but I can tell you are doing it differently from me, even though it may look the same, I know something like that is really hard to explain and maybe it can't be over the Internet.
My trouble is definitely in the first three inches of the forward stroke.

for me its about letting the cue go from the elbow and timing the white from the elbow, so the cue does the work

watch how kyren delivers his cue, very purposeful