Stance

[Snookclops]

Ok - I gave up playing because despite 10+ hours a week practice, I still could never beat my friend who turned up once a week and whooped me!

I recently wondered if just isolating and concentrating on the actual act of cueing - I.e working on the LINE of the cue. I mainly worked on rhythm and follow through.

What I found is that I often cue right and the cue seems to wobble about.

My wrist is turned in in my natural cueing, almost with palm under cue.

I wonder if the fact my only contact points are bridge, chin and hand. I don't have a chest contact.

The cue doesn't want to go straight on rails, I am wondering if the I need a chest contact?

I am also wondering if I have fundamental issues with my setup and grip.

Any help for anchoring the cue in a straight line through the ball?

[pottr]

Stance

post a video... quickest way for us to identify any glaring errors x

[Alba_]

Get the cue on the line and get your chest to cue. Don't pull the cue to the chest, taking it off of the shot line. Everything else needs to be repetitive and the same. Filling your head up with all this snooker jargon just messes with your mind. When youngsters begin to play, do you think they think about all of the stuff that plagues your mind?? Of course not. They just play and get better though holding the cue the same way, same stance etc. Everyone has different bodies & feelings of comfort, assorted grips, stances cue actions and the likes. Just play thought free of all that crap, I say. Practice properly by doing drills & not just bashing balls around. You could go to a coach and he/she would alter everything that feels natural to you. Then you still couldn't pot a ball. You would have to spend the same amount of time that you are doing now getting muscle memory and feel & consistency into your game. Too many people want to run before they can walk. There are loads of good snooker apps that give god drills and training programs to get better with. Get a few of those and get the hours put in. It will click into place eventually.

[Snookclops]

https://youtu.be/nnTsIGG2N24

Here's a vid

[pottr]

Not a very good angle for the video and not enough shots played.

Off the bat, you don't have a pre shot routine and it's pretty much gonna be guesswork from that point on, no matter how well you cue.

Remember, if you're not on the line of aim to begin with, you could have the straightest cue action in the world and you'd still miss more than you pot.

A consistent pre shot routine that can be replicated and worked on... If it changes everytime, then it's impossible for you to learn what works and what doesn't whilst you fine tune it.

Get the cue on the line and get your chest to cue. Don't pull the cue to the chest, taking it off of the shot line.

Disregard all this... It's good advice but it will cause more harm than good to you to start adding the chest as a point of contact... You're not at the level yet where you would notice the benefit.

[Big Splash!]

Ok - I gave up playing because despite 10+ hours a week practice, I still could never beat my friend who turned up once a week and whooped me!

I recently wondered if just isolating and concentrating on the actual act of cueing - I.e working on the LINE of the cue. I mainly worked on rhythm and follow through.

What I found is that I often cue right and the cue seems to wobble about.

My wrist is turned in in my natural cueing, almost with palm under cue.

I wonder if the fact my only contact points are bridge, chin and hand. I don't have a chest contact.

The cue doesn't want to go straight on rails, I am wondering if the I need a chest contact?

I am also wondering if I have fundamental issues with my setup and grip.

Any help for anchoring the cue in a straight line through the ball?

A lack of chest contact has hampered Ronnie's long game in the past IMO. Yes, you should have one. But you need to be low down for it to work as well as it can. It can still work if you have your cue butt well above the rail but you'll find that you develop unintentional side and screw on some shots so your CB control will suffer. This is where stance comes in. Davis said shoulder width between the feet but some taller chaps find they need to be a bit wider to get down to the table height. You need to add a walk-in-routine to a new stance, so that your anchor leg and dominant eye are on the shot line 3ft back from the table. You can choose foot-in-line on the shot line or foot pointing out on the shot line, etc. You will have to adjust what your upper body does and how it rests on the table, i.e. your bridge arm, to bring the cue back to the shot line; it will have moved off the shot line as you have now changed stance. You may have to adjust your grip as well, if you find you are pulling or pushing the cue on take-back/delivery. You may even have to adjust cue on chin. Once you make one major change, others follow, so this process could take maybe two years; 6mths to bed in each change.

Is it worth it? How much do you want to beat your friend then move on to bigger breaks and beating other players?

[Snookclops]

Pre shot routine, I do step back and step into shot. My head goes straight down on that clip. I thought this is PSR?

As I can shoot the spots pretty well, perhaps it IS my aiming at fault. I seem pretty straight in cueing within reason, I dedicated nearly all my practice to straight cueing as many said aiming is easy and it's 99% your cue action.

I seem to change how I aim, some shots I just see it. Others it's ghost ball and others by picking a point.

Is this what you mean by pre shot routine - mentally mapping the shot and working out the contact point?

I do remember once being able to just see the contact point really well and I played better than ever. Just seems to take a lot of concentration and each shot takes a long time for me to walk around the pot and "simulate" the balls at impact.

People say "just get on with it" but this has not worked for me. Do you actually visualise the pot or does it just happen?

I can shoot a straight easy pot over and over, put angles in there and I struggle.

Also, I once remember actually describing each pot in my head - i.e is that a half ball? No it's slightly thin half ball". This seemed to help.

I thought of this as a potential idea.

Find the BOB point by observation

Visualise the balls at impact (I.e what is the line of the CB to produce hitting BOB)

Cue on line, plays shot

I do feel all at sea in how I work out angles for non easy pots. Some, like 1/2 ball black, I can just see and play.

Is this what u are getting at ?

[Snookclops]

I really wanted to get a 50 break, I would love to be a much better player. I put in as much work as I could around work commitments and often exceeded 10 hours per week, often more. I just could only marginally progress, because potting balls is so hard for me. I have pretty good safety but my friend would rock up and beat me with no practice despite always close games, no matter how good I got he just upped game. I just figured I was no good at snooker and it really hit my confidence as usually if I work hard at something I can improve. Basic potting is still beyond me. Still have got lots of 20s a few 30s but it's not fluent and the balls need to be nice.

After 6 months out I was about as good as I ever was on returning. Still missing basic pots now and then.

Very hard to practice and practise and turn up and get beat by a part times 10 times in a row. Might win a frame, but I was winning about 1/15 games, a real rarity. Just demoralised me

[pottr]

A lack of chest contact has hampered Ronnie's long game in the past IMO.

Eh? He does cue along his chest... just look at every single waistcoat he wears, tells you all you need to know.

Pre shot routine, I do step back and step into shot. My head goes straight down on that clip. I thought this is PSR?

It's not the same on those two shots... Like I said, a longer video with a wider view and more than two shots required.

As I can shoot the spots pretty well, perhaps it IS my aiming at fault. I seem pretty straight in cueing within reason, I dedicated nearly all my practice to straight cueing as many said aiming is easy and it's 99% your cue action.

Aiming's the easy part... I assure you any problems you have will be as a result of the cue moving off line however straight you feel you're cueing. I still have days where I don't cue as straight as I'd like... The trick is being able to identify the factor which is causing it... Usually a flaw in the grip, stance, pre shot or just something as simple as movement on the shot. Get the 'I can't aim' nonsense out of your head... I hear it too often.

I seem to change how I aim, some shots I just see it. Others it's ghost ball and others by picking a point.

Too much focus on this absolute nonsense... If you can't work out where to hit the ball then you shouldn't be playing the game. It's as simple as if you hit it there and you miss by x amount, then move the angle you strike at til you get it right and repeat.

Is this what you mean by pre shot routine - mentally mapping the shot and working out the contact point?

Not at all. A pre shot routine is designed to make sure that everything is the same for every shot... If it's not the same, then how can you spot a flaw mechanically.

I do remember once being able to just see the contact point really well and I played better than ever. Just seems to take a lot of concentration and each shot takes a long time for me to walk around the pot and "simulate" the balls at impact.

Well, save yourself the exhaustion of that... it does nothing...

There was a study with golfers years back about how they look at and map putts. They found out using electrical mapping that the brain forgets the image within around 7/9 seconds anyway... Work in real time and try to relax, you'll have more fun too coz it will take less efforts and that energy you save can go toward thinking whether or not something worked.

People say "just get on with it" but this has not worked for me. Do you actually visualise the pot or does it just happen?

It just happens... But that's after countless hours and imitating better players for 20 years. Even then, there's inconsistencies

I can shoot a straight easy pot over and over, put angles in there and I struggle.

Coz you're likely not cueing straight... probably flicking the wrist or snatching the grip. Again, need to see it to diagnose it properly

Also, I once remember actually describing each pot in my head - i.e is that a half ball? No it's slightly thin half ball". This seemed to help.

Unnecessary thoughts

Find the BOB point by observation

Visualise the balls at impact (I.e what is the line of the CB to produce hitting BOB)

Cue on line, plays shot

I do feel all at sea in how I work out angles for non easy pots. Some, like 1/2 ball black, I can just see and play.

Is this what u are getting at ?

You shouldn't even really be aware of this terminology... It's this crap that's holding you back and I'm sick and tired of pseudo qualified coaches promoting it. It's like someone come up with a term that sounds jargonistic as a means to validate their own position as a coach.

Learn the following:
stance
bridge
grip
how to hold the rest

find a temp of cueing you're comfortable with.
keep still

Then you can start knocking balls in and working out what works for you.

If you can hit the white ball into a pocket you can work out angles through practice. All this BOB and ghost ball is just nonsense. Hit the white on the part of the ball which puts it in the pocket.

My friend, you learn that from hours on the table, not hours reading online...

END OF x

P.S where are you based?

[throtts]

Thats correct. There is a big difference between talking about the correct routines and the actual practice of it. For 95% of players,,, If you only play a few hours a week then you will only achieve a certain standard. 20"s 30"s standard.

Had a year out and have gone back playing. My only thought was, after the year out, was to keep the grip relaxed,,, then,, everything else fell in to place and is improving fast.

Angle shots are missed from cueing across the cue ball. Players are willing the pot in through their heads, instead of using self belief.

[markz]

Great post by pottr. If you've not seen it before pottr made a video to help with stance and improving, he keeps it simple and it's worth watching.

https://youtu.be/Kcvy0uTtTrQ

[Snookclops]

Pottr - many thanks for your post. Just returned from 2 hrs practice, potting was a bit better.

Really appreciate all the input from all.

So, is what you are saying is just aim INSTINCTIVELY. That's what I am hearing, go with your gut feel, pick a spot and fire...

You are saying the brain and body will work it out without need for consciously think about contact points, like you don't think of the club head in golf, you just play the shot (I play golf and know this)

Are you saying I just have to endure hours of poor snooker learning and eventually, every shot will have been played so many times I will just know it by route learning? So I don't need to worry about what I am doing in practice as much as I actually am on the table, learning pots and shots?

Often I hear that you must make the most of practice and playing aimlessly teaches you nothing? Surely playing by gut means your practice is just about learning certain shots, without learning technique? Technique, angles and potting can only be learned?

My natural way of hitting a shot is to judge it as one would judge throwing a ball off a walk into a waste paper basket, which I think is what you are saying is correct. Issue is that naturally this doesn't lead to good potting and I find being very precise on where I look on cue ball can help. Other times it doesn't.

Is it really an art you don't have to zero in on fractions on the ball? Will it just happen in a flowing motion without need to look?

I see the pros flow through shots. They can't be looking at a grain of dust on a cue ball can they?

Problem is, playing with complete freedom like this, sometimes I make insane pots. I sometimes lark about hitting shots in a split second and it's amazing what I pot, often not even down on shot properly!

It feels like I am not practicing. It needs to be serious.

So, next time I just forget about BOB etc and just play pots, and learn to cope with missing, and trust it will happen....

Still feel like I am just messing about and not being precise!!

[Snookclops]

Oh ps I am in Bristol

[pottr]

Pottr - many thanks for your post. Just returned from 2 hrs practice, potting was a bit better.

So, is what you are saying is just aim INSTINCTIVELY. That's what I am hearing, go with your gut feel, pick a spot and fire...

Yes, if the pot goes in... great, do it again...

You are saying the brain and body will work it out without need for consciously think about contact points, like you don't think of the club head in golf, you just play the shot (I play golf and know this)

Yes, it's really that simple

Are you saying I just have to endure hours of poor snooker learning and eventually, every shot will have been played so many times I will just know it by route learning? So I don't need to worry about what I am doing in practice as much as I actually am on the table, learning pots and shots?

Yes, so long as you have mastered the stance and walking into the shot... the rest can be learned as you play if you don't grip the cue too tight

Often I hear that you must make the most of practice and playing aimlessly teaches you nothing? Surely playing by gut means your practice is just about learning certain shots, without learning technique? Technique, angles and potting can only be learned?

Structured practice doesn't mean you have to analyse every point...

Focus on the task, not the method... You can't let the method take over coz it will distract you from the game

My natural way of hitting a shot is to judge it as one would judge throwing a ball off a walk into a waste paper basket, which I think is what you are saying is correct. Issue is that naturally this doesn't lead to good potting and I find being very precise on where I look on cue ball can help. Other times it doesn't.

This is internal to everyone... You have to find what works for you... practice will do that.

Is it really an art you don't have to zero in on fractions on the ball? Will it just happen in a flowing motion without need to look?

The pocket is bigger than the ball... 1/16 of an inch difference in picking a contact point will never translate to missing the pot, it's just a bad assumption if you fool yourself into thinking this.

I see the pros flow through shots. They can't be looking at a grain of dust on a cue ball can they?

They're not... But they play a different game all together... Don't focus on what the pros do... There are nuances that are out of your grasp for now.

Problem is, playing with complete freedom like this, sometimes I make insane pots. I sometimes lark about hitting shots in a split second and it's amazing what I pot, often not even down on shot properly!

Get used to it! You'll be doing that even when you're knocking in tons... Practice helps, doesn't cure it... Otherwise we'd never miss.

It feels like I am not practicing. It needs to be serious.

Again... focus on the task, not the method... it can still be serious.

So, next time I just forget about BOB etc and just play pots, and learn to cope with missing, and trust it will happen....

Yes... it's absolute balls... made up nonsense

Still feel like I am just messing about and not being precise!!

This is your hobby, not a proposal to NASA for a new space craft... Play the game you love and enjoy it... focus on the task at hand... improvements will come.

[jonny66]

I have much better technique when I play pool, it's not just because the table is smaller. I get more action on the cue ball from less effort, it tends to do what I want it to do and the balls split the middle of the pocket most of the time. I couldn't really work out why I can cue really well on a pool table and terribly on a snooker table, but it's just dawned on me. Partly it is because the table is harder to play on, but I don't think about my technique on a pool table, I just pick the shot I want to play and play it. On a snooker table my mind is constantly on how I'm standing or holding the cue, did the tip come back straight? I think it maybe went 0.2mm to the left on the backswing, I'M GOING TO MISS!!! Then I miss. If I just pick the shot, get down, then play the shot they tend to go in. It's easy to get your mind stuck in the wrong place after you've missed a couple though.

What I'm saying is forgetting about your technique, during an actual match, actually makes it better. It's a funny old game.