When does a stroke end?

[Joe99]

When does a stroke end?

The rules say that a stroke is NOT completed until all balls have come to rest. This could be contrued as slightly ambiguous as it does not say precisely when a stroke IS completed.

For example, what if the rest is still on the table? If in removing it, the player commits a foul, does that make the stroke just played a foul or is it regarded as part of the next stroke?

Does it make any difference if the referee has or has not announced any points? Or if he has or has not completed any necessary respotting?

[The Statman]

The stroke ends as the last ball stops moving. Look at the following scenarios:

1 Player pots colour, and as he is walking around the table, after the balls have stopped moving but before the ref has spotted the colour he touches a red as he walks.

Foul. The player scores for the colour he potted and is fouled 4 for the foul on the red (next shot).

2 Player pots a red and, before the balls have stopped moving but after the referee has called "One", he touches the blue as he lifts the rest off the table.

Foul. The referee would change his call: "Apology. Foul, five to the other guy".

3 Player pots pink at the end of the frame. Before the balls have stopped moving he does an exhibition shot on the black, striking the moving white to do so, knowing he has won the frame.

Foul on the PINK SHOT (which has not been completed). Foul six (for striking the cue-ball more than once in the same shot) or seven if the black should go in.

Players have to be careful in this instance – if he had been 19 ahead before knocking the pink in, this could mean that his opponent could tie (or win if the foul was 7).

4 Player misses a red. He stands tableside and watches where the balls end up. When they have stopped moving, he walks back to his seat but as he does so he touches the green with his sleeve.

Foul. Although the shot is completed, the turn does not end till the balls have stopped AND the referee is satisfied that the player has moved away from the table. So in this instance he would be fouled (of course, there is no issue as to whether he scores for his shot since if his turn is at an end he will not have scored).

5 Player pots a red and leaves the rest on the table as he needs it to play the green, which is ideally placed. He walks round the table and assesses the situation and decides that he will play another colour (or that he actually needs the long rest). He picks up the rest well after the balls have stopped moving and nudges a red.

Foul SEVEN. He scores 1 for the red, and is penalised 7 for making a foul before he has nominated a colour.

[rambon]

The stroke ends as the last ball stops moving. Look at the following scenarios:

1 Player pots colour, and as he is walking around the table, after the balls have stopped moving but before the ref has spotted the colour he touches a red as he walks.

Foul. The player scores for the colour he potted and is fouled 4 for the foul on the red (next shot).

2 Player pots a red and, before the balls have stopped moving but after the referee has called "One", he touches the blue as he lifts the rest off the table.

Foul. The referee would change his call: "Apology. Foul, five to the other guy".

3 Player pots pink at the end of the frame. Before the balls have stopped moving he does an exhibition shot on the black, striking the moving white to do so, knowing he has won the frame.

Foul on the PINK SHOT (which has not been completed). Foul six (for striking the cue-ball more than once in the same shot) or seven if the black should go in.

Players have to be careful in this instance – if he had been 19 ahead before knocking the pink in, this could mean that his opponent could tie (or win if the foul was 7).

4 Player misses a red. He stands tableside and watches where the balls end up. When they have stopped moving, he walks back to his seat but as he does so he touches the green with his sleeve.

Foul. Although the shot is completed, the turn does not end till the balls have stopped AND the referee is satisfied that the player has moved away from the table. So in this instance he would be fouled (of course, there is no issue as to whether he scores for his shot since if his turn is at an end he will not have scored).

5 Player pots a red and leaves the rest on the table as he needs it to play the green, which is ideally placed. He walks round the table and assesses the situation and decides that he will play another colour (or that he actually needs the long rest). He picks up the rest well after the balls have stopped moving and nudges a red.

Foul SEVEN. He scores 1 for the red, and is penalised 7 for making a foul before he has nominated a colour.

That seems a pretty complete answer.

Is it possible to know TOO much??

[davis_greatest]

3 Player pots pink at the end of the frame. Before the balls have stopped moving he does an exhibition shot on the black, striking the moving white to do so, knowing he has won the frame.

Foul on the PINK SHOT (which has not been completed). Foul six (for striking the cue-ball more than once in the same shot) or seven if the black should go in.

Players have to be careful in this instance – if he had been 19 ahead before knocking the pink in, this could mean that his opponent could tie (or win if the foul was 7).

A not unheard of scenario, especially when O'Sullivan is playing. I remember raising this (was it here on TSF, or on the old BBC 5 Live?) when he did exactly this - played the black before the white had come to rest, after pocketing the pink.

The referee failed to call a foul on the pink, which should have been respotted, meaning that O'Sullivan's opponent would no longer have needed snookers.

[davis_greatest]

Re the above, an interesting dilemma - if you had been O'Sullivan's opponent (I forget who it was in the above instance), should you have queried this with the referee?

Technically, you would have every right to do so - ask the referee to respot the pink and come back to the table, no longer needing a snooker. However, if you did this, I suspect that you would not become very popular, especially as O'Sullivan had only played the black before the white had come to rest to entertain the crowd. It might seem, in the eyes of the viewers, like the Murphy-Maguire chalk incident.

[lagermike]

Difficult to say davis greatest man.

But what is certain, is that the majority of Steve Davis' strokes end in the first round of tournaments.