Timing

[roykay]

Well said Bolty.

[tomperty]

Watching a few videos on youtube and seeing how top players generate the spin needed and seeing a video of barry stark talking about physical timing and then seeing a video of Stephen Lee pro claiming that he squeezes as the cue goes through to generate the spin, I think Ronnie speaks of the same thing in his small coaching snippets of The Ronnie O'Sullivan show. Watching other professsionals in person and it appears that most of them "squeeze" to generate that spin and not allow the cue to go too far through. So I ask to question, how can you generate the spin without the squeeze or do you need to force your hand to close the grip hand as you've struck to cue ball (in essence "squeeze") ?

I'm certain that when they say 'squeeze' they are actually just referring to the way their hand closes around the cue naturally as the cue comes forward. As your fingers furl around the cue during the delivery you'll have more frictional force holding it in place.

Consciously squeezing your cue will be a very bad idea. You'll almost certainly be pulling it off line with the stresses in your hand.

[Dave_marsy]

The pro players are playing on fast tables so it looks like the getting more action on the ball ....just push through the ball and hold on to the shot and the more you play the better your timing will get ..also a good tip helps

[jonny66]

Do you guys find that timing is something that comes and goes? You might start a break timing the ball really well, but start to tense up as the points get higher, or vice versa, vice versa is definitely preferable IMO Also can you still pot balls OK when your timing is shot? I start to miss by miles when things tense up and I'd like to find a cue action that works when things are a bit tense. I remember Shaun Murphy saying he had developed a cue action that remains straight no matter how much pressure he is under, but he didn't explain his secret.

[Terry Davidson]

Do you guys find that timing is something that comes and goes? You might start a break timing the ball really well, but start to tense up as the points get higher, or vice versa, vice versa is definitely preferable IMO Also can you still pot balls OK when your timing is shot? I start to miss by miles when things tense up and I'd like to find a cue action that works when things are a bit tense. I remember Shaun Murphy saying he had developed a cue action that remains straight no matter how much pressure he is under, but he didn't explain his secret.

For some reason I find I will lose my timing if I do not have a front pause in addition to keeping my head down until the end of the shot. I've also found in matches I tend to tighten my grip for some reason, probably pressure, and I have changed to a grip which makes this very hard to do (although I haven't tested it in a match as yet).

[jonny66]

For some reason I find I will lose my timing if I do not have a front pause in addition to keeping my head down until the end of the shot. I've also found in matches I tend to tighten my grip for some reason, probably pressure, and I have changed to a grip which makes this very hard to do (although I haven't tested it in a match as yet).

Is this something you can explain? I mess with my grip far too much I think, probably changed it 3 times in the last month. Three fingers, four fingers, grabbed in the web with no fingers, hanging in the fingers. I can make them all work, but it's the timing that makes them work IMO, and I think that comes from a little confidence boost when I smack one into the heart of the pocket

[Terry Davidson]

Is this something you can explain? I mess with my grip far too much I think, probably changed it 3 times in the last month. Three fingers, four fingers, grabbed in the web with no fingers, hanging in the fingers. I can make them all work, but it's the timing that makes them work IMO, and I think that comes from a little confidence boost when I smack one into the heart of the pocket

Based on the last week or so of practice I have developed a few things which have seemed to really help things. First of all, I discovered my head was lifting on the backswing and I was also tightening my previous grip too early in the delivery. My head movement of the backswing along with a full four- finger grip which I thought was loose was causing me to strike right-to-left. I discovered this using video analysis which is a really valuable tool, especially when reviewing frame-by-frame.

So I challenged myself to keep my head still and down from the backswing to AFTER the delivery which is really stupid because I actually stress that to my students when I'm coaching but I wasn't doing it myself. It took me a real determined effort to keep all my upper body still but I was still getting a bit of left-hand side on the strike or in other words striking right-to-left so the only thing left was my grip. (Actually Steve Davis started moving his head on the backswing when he was nearer the end of his competitive play, so maybe an age thing?)

The first problem I discovered was I used a severe wrist cock with the angle between the end of the arm and the back of the grip hand was nearly 90* which is not natural and leads to tension in the wrist. So I took my grip hand without a cue and just had it at the side of my hip hanging down naturally and then formed a fist without cocking the wrist. This gets around a 30* angle between the end of the arm and back of the hand but it felt really relaxed with no tension. Then I decided to try a grip using JUST the forefinger with the back 3 fingers and thumb just barely touching the cue. In trying this I found if I brought the cue right into my palm with the forefinger wrapped right around the cue (but not tight).

I found I started to deliver the cue absolutely straight (remember, combined with no head movement and accelerating through and beyond the cueball). After the cueball strike I found I was actually stopping the cue with my back 3 fingers and everything seemed to flow. In checking shooting long blues with a 'stop shot' I started making 10 of them in around 13-14 attempts where previously it was taking me around 20 attempts.

Now, every morning I try 10 long blues with the last one being an extreme screw shot trying to get the cueball back to the yellow pocket. I haven't done that yet but I do make it back to baulk and if I was on a pro cloth I think I would make the yellow pocket. When I shoot the spots using extreme power (about 4-1/2 lengths on my table) the cueball comes back to within one ball's width of the brown spot on the 4th leg, which is something I couldn't do before.

So to recap...just the forefinger wrapped around the butt with the thumb and back 3 fingers not playing any part. Thumb is pointed directly at the floor. Concentrate on keeping the head absolutely still from address through the backswing and delivery and beyond that and especially when using a bit of power have the grip hand hitting the chest stopping the cue using the back 3 fingers. (The forefinger will release because of the angle of the cue with the grip hand at the end of the delivery. Remember to have the wrist joint hang naturally and DRIVE THROUGH the cueball.

Long post but I hope I have explained it although if you lived over here I could coach it into you or I could post a video showing the grip it would probably help. My problem with posting a video is first of all I don't know how and secondly I have no one to help me video from the different positions.

[jonny66]

Thanks Tel

[cpserrao]

Based on the last week or so of practice I have developed a few things which have seemed to really help things. First of all, I discovered my head was lifting on the backswing and I was also tightening my previous grip too early in the delivery. My head movement of the backswing along with a full four- finger grip which I thought was loose was causing me to strike right-to-left. I discovered this using video analysis which is a really valuable tool, especially when reviewing frame-by-frame.

So I challenged myself to keep my head still and down from the backswing to AFTER the delivery which is really stupid because I actually stress that to my students when I'm coaching but I wasn't doing it myself. It took me a real determined effort to keep all my upper body still but I was still getting a bit of left-hand side on the strike or in other words striking right-to-left so the only thing left was my grip. (Actually Steve Davis started moving his head on the backswing when he was nearer the end of his competitive play, so maybe an age thing?)

The first problem I discovered was I used a severe wrist cock with the angle between the end of the arm and the back of the grip hand was nearly 90* which is not natural and leads to tension in the wrist. So I took my grip hand without a cue and just had it at the side of my hip hanging down naturally and then formed a fist without cocking the wrist. This gets around a 30* angle between the end of the arm and back of the hand but it felt really relaxed with no tension. Then I decided to try a grip using JUST the forefinger with the back 3 fingers and thumb just barely touching the cue. In trying this I found if I brought the cue right into my palm with the forefinger wrapped right around the cue (but not tight).

I found I started to deliver the cue absolutely straight (remember, combined with no head movement and accelerating through and beyond the cueball). After the cueball strike I found I was actually stopping the cue with my back 3 fingers and everything seemed to flow. In checking shooting long blues with a 'stop shot' I started making 10 of them in around 13-14 attempts where previously it was taking me around 20 attempts.

Now, every morning I try 10 long blues with the last one being an extreme screw shot trying to get the cueball back to the yellow pocket. I haven't done that yet but I do make it back to baulk and if I was on a pro cloth I think I would make the yellow pocket. When I shoot the spots using extreme power (about 4-1/2 lengths on my table) the cueball comes back to within one ball's width of the brown spot on the 4th leg, which is something I couldn't do before.

So to recap...just the forefinger wrapped around the butt with the thumb and back 3 fingers not playing any part. Thumb is pointed directly at the floor. Concentrate on keeping the head absolutely still from address through the backswing and delivery and beyond that and especially when using a bit of power have the grip hand hitting the chest stopping the cue using the back 3 fingers. (The forefinger will release because of the angle of the cue with the grip hand at the end of the delivery. Remember to have the wrist joint hang naturally and DRIVE THROUGH the cueball.

Long post but I hope I have explained it although if you lived over here I could coach it into you or I could post a video showing the grip it would probably help. My problem with posting a video is first of all I don't know how and secondly I have no one to help me video from the different positions.

Awesome post! I was struggling with striking the ball cleanly recently. Tried the above and it works like a charm for me. Was able to cue much straighter than what i was doing. Lets hope I can replicate that again today

[Dave_marsy]

Never given the grip much thought really but I do tend to hit across the ball and put left hand side on the cue ball ...will give this grip a go next time I get to practice
I also know something is going wrong in my back swing on power shots

[blahblah01]

Never given the grip much thought really but I do tend to hit across the ball and put left hand side on the cue ball ...will give this grip a go next time I get to practice
I also know something is going wrong in my back swing on power shots

Well, it fked my evolving grip and cue action, despite making a lot of sense......

[jonny66]

I think the grip is quite a personal thing, everyone's hands are different, different shapes and sizes. I suppose you just need to find one that works for you and stick with it, which I'm finding easier said than done.

[ChrisG1011]

I started to play with my grip last week and it destroyed my game, I'm going to just try as simply as be a bit more relaxed, I was over thinking it and honestly I did a line up and think the most I pitted was 7 in a row without missing.

[Dave_marsy]

I was always told just to pick the cue up from the table and hold it like you would a bird ...too loos it will fly away too tight and you choke the bird ....I used to hold the cue with just the two front fingers it worked for me for most of my competitive years ...now 35 yrs on I'm playing again and try to rebuild my game now thinking about things I just played naturally ...think the main limitations are my eye sight today and lack of table time

[Terry Davidson]

Just keep in mind...what works for me may not necessarily work for everyone else. In practice yesterday I realized my hold on the cue is actually the top of my thumb and forefinger with the forefinger wrappen right around the butt and the cue well into my palm. In actual fact this is pure textbook stuff but my potting has improved along with the amount of spin I can get with a deep screw