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  • #61
    Originally Posted by Slasher View Post
    The speed at the time of contact would be the only determining factor.
    What's your opinion on when the commentator may say 'he's timing the ball well'? Do you think that it could actually translate to 'they're hitting the white on the exact spot that they mean to and at the correct pace'?

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    • #62
      Originally Posted by tomperty View Post
      What's your opinion on when the commentator may say 'he's timing the ball well'? Do you think that it could actually translate to 'they're hitting the white on the exact spot that they mean to and at the correct pace'?
      That's exactly right, but none of them actually know that, they think it's more about follow through.
      It is the point of cue ball contact along the length of the stroke, in other words where and when you expect to make contact, if your "timing" is off look at your setup, eye pattern and cue ball address. If your back arm is not in the usual start position and you are not the usual distance from the CB it will feel very different, the cue speed and point of contact will be different. If your eye pattern changes you may not strike the CB as intended hence you won't get the expected reaction.

      This is where the misconceptions come in to play, anything immediately after contact is irrelevant.
      Players that are trying to fix problems end up wasting their time trying to push the cue beyond what is natural even start dropping the elbow and it is all for nowt and probably makes things worse.

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      • #63
        Originally Posted by vmax View Post
        Not hard, just slight pressure is enough to put a bend into the shaft. Reference point of chin contact on cue stays maintained, that's all that's happening, making sure you're not moving your head = greater accuracy.

        It's certainly the case that as the cue is drawn back then the chin contact gets less as the shaft gets thinner so this is just the chin going down a tad more until the rear pause to stay in contact. There's no lateral energy going into the cue and being released for more power.
        However vmax there is still that feeling that somehow the cue gets released. Now maybe this feeling is purely subjective or maybe it is caused by the pressure on the chin and bridge creating a little bit more friction and therefore you need that tiny little bit more effort to get the cue going and break that initial friction. A bit like trying to push a heavy box. You gotta give it a bit of a jolt to get it going.

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        • #64
          Or come to think of it the most likely cause is simply your cue arm returning to vertical on delivery and taking the pressure of chin.

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          • #65
            Originally Posted by Slasher View Post
            That's exactly right, but none of them actually know that, they think it's more about follow through.
            It is the point of cue ball contact along the length of the stroke, in other words where and when you expect to make contact, if your "timing" is off look at your setup, eye pattern and cue ball address. If your back arm is not in the usual start position and you are not the usual distance from the CB it will feel very different, the cue speed and point of contact will be different. If your eye pattern changes you may not strike the CB as intended hence you won't get the expected reaction.

            This is where the misconceptions come in to play, anything immediately after contact is irrelevant.
            Players that are trying to fix problems end up wasting their time trying to push the cue beyond what is natural even start dropping the elbow and it is all for nowt and probably makes things worse.
            I've had a few conversations about things like this with my good friend. I feel like sometimes the commentators (and ex-players in Steve Davis' case) do misunderstand some things. They can obviously play the game to a great standard but don't always understand the whys. I once heard Dominic Dale say that "attacking players tend to use 3/4 cues." and I had a little chuckle to myself.

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            • #66
              Through doing some looking around I think I may have found an answer. Upon looking on an old thread I came across some advice that Terry Davidson has posted with regards to straighter cueing. I'm specifically looking at point 5 where he suggests that the right shoulder be locked in place (I'm assuming to restrict unwanted movement). Perhaps this is what I've noticed with that clip of Ronnie because his shirt does seem to move near the shoulder during the delivery. Supposedly Joe Davis also mentioned in his book that the right shoulder should be 'braced' up and in as far as it can go.

              Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
              The real problem is there are around 15 different requirements which have to be met before a player can deliver a cue consistently straight and elbow alignment is NOT one of them.

              The most important points are:
              1. No upper body movement from bridge hand on the table to end of delivery.
              2. Loose grip (loose enough so the cue slides easily within the grip)
              3. Slow backswing (slow enough so you can keep it absolutely straight and under control)
              4. Left shoulder against left cheek
              5. Right shoulder up and into the middle of the back as much as possible without introducing discomfort.
              6. Front pause just before final backswing.
              7. Rear pause at end of backswing
              8. Smooth acceleration on delivery, starting slower and building speed
              9. Drive grip hand into the chest on EVERY shot
              10. Leave the cue extended at the end of the delivery and observe the object ball path WITHOUT MOVING THE HEAD (just use the eyes). This will give your brain the proper feedback food it requires.
              11. Only feather two times, maximum 3.

              Terry

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              • #67
                I read this topic extensively and I understand contact time is increased significantly by acceleration. The main argument against being that it is only in contact for say 0.02ms and that changes to 0.04 or something, but by percentage terms it appears to dramatically increase contact times so I found the only rational conclusion that acceleration has a demonstrable physical effect.

                It’s like saying Running the 100m in 10 seconds is pretty much the same as 14 seconds.

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                • #68
                  Not physically possible, follow through has no effect on the reaction of the CB, it is long gone. Dropping the elbow or striving to push the cue through beyond a natural finish is pointless unless it is just more comfortable for you to do that but it absolutely will not change the reaction. This has been proven time and time again in other sports like golf and tennis.

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                  • #69
                    https://1drv.ms/v/s!AnpqtnXHnuN6gQew15cRTfJHomIn

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                    • #70
                      Bear with me guys. Trying to upload a video from one drive

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                      • #71
                        https://youtu.be/XBMkqoAa3lk
                        Got it. This is me playing a shot with pulling the cue hard up against my chin. You can clearly see the bend in the cue. No way I would get this kind of power with this accuracy any other way.

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                        • #72
                          Originally Posted by rimmer10 View Post
                          https://youtu.be/XBMkqoAa3lk
                          Got it. This is me playing a shot with pulling the cue hard up against my chin. You can clearly see the bend in the cue. No way I would get this kind of power with this accuracy any other way.
                          You are day dreaming man :-)

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                          • #73
                            Originally Posted by sealer View Post
                            You are day dreaming man :-)
                            In what respect

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                            • #74
                              Originally Posted by rimmer10 View Post
                              https://youtu.be/XBMkqoAa3lk
                              Got it. This is me playing a shot with pulling the cue hard up against my chin. You can clearly see the bend in the cue. No way I would get this kind of power with this accuracy any other way.
                              Bend in the cue is plain to see but I can't see that it's a shot that tests power or accuracy. Could play the same shot without bending cue.

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                              • #75
                                Originally Posted by markz View Post
                                Bend in the cue is plain to see but I can't see that it's a shot that tests power or accuracy. Could play the same shot without bending cue.
                                I couldn't. You've got to bear in mind that I only play once a week and that my highest break is a remarkable 26. Which means that by definition my cue action is pretty sh.te. Especially on power shot. So for me to be able to do that is like winning the lottery.

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