High Rake or No Rake?

[tomwalker147]

Yes. There are certain things that are important that all (most) good players do. After that, it's just hours of practice to engrain your own technique.

Completely agree. Nice to read a sensible comment. The key for me is repetition, repetition, repetition.

[Big Splash!]

I think it is very hard to truly commit to any technical change. Once the initial positive placebo effect starts to wear off people may panic and revert to their old technique, or even worse, try something else...forget their old technique altogether and get lost for a while. For us club guys who are not ton breakers, this is especially true. It is also very hard to stop tinkering with technique for some players. The urge can be irresistible. I try not to be that guy.

Very few people can be totally ruthless. It isn't easy; it takes more strength than you might believe.

I swapped over to foot-in-line a few years ago after playing one stance for decades. I haven't gone back. It went downhill from the first ball but I stuck to it and made it work. Recently, I've experimented with foot-on-line, pointing out. But today I was back to foot-in-line, Hendry style; and he was ruthless. I can play many ways to a good standard and I understand these different set-ups. Anyway, 2nd session with the L shoulder not clamped to the table and not pointing in, i.e. the upper arm of the bridge arm is parallel to the cue with a good gap between both, bent arm bridge. Piece of cake. I can pot in this style every 5 seconds, it's very smooth and once you've done the 'is the cue straight?', 'is the angle correct?' checks when you get down, it is so easy to stroke the cue through even without feathering, dead straight, at any pace. I tested deep screw, big stuns, mini-screws and stuns, run-throughs, plain ball, dead weight, etc. Plenty of power. Cue under the nipple and brushing the hip, cue parallel to the middle finger, centre chin cueing. A bit like classic Davis really. Downsides? Not as stable or locked like shoulder really down pointing in a bit. Be careful of head and body movement.

I'll be continuing this set-up for the 3mths Ted has recommended, that's about the time it takes a change to feel totally natural, though this change (compared to changing to foot-in-line and shorterning my BtB from 11 to 8 inches) feels the easiest to adopt already. The only issue is it feels so good, that one can go a bit quick and miss silly long balls. You have to slow down a bit with it on the big shots. In my previous bridge/shoulder, extra time was taken getting down and locking down so the shot wasn't rushed.

The wonderful thing about this change, is that it's probably going to be the last and I will have the set-up of my dreams and be able to hold it and pot really well until I give up in me 90s. Overall, no aches in the upper body and no tiredness. It will be interesting to see if I can turn the clock back and hit the big numbers again.

[Byrom]

it takes a long time to ingrain something and there is a constant tinkering to get your set up right but I would not go off pot success rates I would go off a more simpler exercise first - a boring Davis one actually - using this pre shot technique you have developed. set up the chalk on top of the back cushion place the black on the chalk slightly to the left or right of the spots down the centre of the table and place the white in the D in perfect alignment. Use this black ball on top of cushion as a aiming guide then hit the white up and down the table and try and bring the white back keep the cue forwards and stay still try and make the white hit the tip - increase the power slowly. This shows up any inaccuracies in alignment and is a better test of what works best in your setup. Then once you have found out what works best in your whole set up to enable you to hit straight and true commit to it and set about making all of it a consistent thing with potting exercises.

Otherwise you will do potting exercises and you will have good days and bad and forever be tinkering. At least this exercise first will enable you to understand what it takes to make you cue best - straight and true - before moving on - which I think is a better thing for your own confidence when starting out trying to ingrain your own personal pre shot routine.

It also helps with your patience because its a bloody boring exercise - although one I see great value in.

[Big Splash!]

^ Yep, I will run the new shoulder position through this test tomorrow. Obviously, one should detect no throw, no side off the cushion and accuracy up and down. If the table is level!

[Byrom]

Coaches mostly say do this or do that with regards technique but perhaps they are mostly wrong to generalise when not able to see the player in person.

You can find your own way if you know how to test what works best for yourself and can commit properly to practice. Individually no two players are the same and you can find your own way by experimenting like you do with different set ups.

Lots of people said Stuart Bingham would not win anything as his technique was flawed and he was too high at the back. Lots of people critiqued Mark Selby for having too long a stroke or moving on shot or Mark Allen' cue action for being to short and jabby/flicky. I'm sure lots of people said stuff about lots of players who where not exactly textbook. Higgins Swail list is endless ... End of day as the member nevermissablue has said on here before what works for you and you can take what some might regard as a flaw - keep it consistent in your pre shot routine and make it part of your game.

I like your approach to trying things out big splash - you get lots of stick but clearly love snooker - and come at things from a different viewpoint. I find that interesting. People often experiment in snooker with their setup bit by bit and trot off potting long blues and line ups and have good days and bad - not really sure what works best adding new things and never really sticking or staying consistent as they have a bad day and immediately loose confidence with their technique or cue and try and alter bits.

They might add stuff try other things out and skip or forget these simple basic exercises like this and the baulk line exercise stuff - which I think would greatly help to get the alignment timing and shape on the shot right first and instead they jump to potting balls. Fact is you can still pot balls with what might be slightly flawed technique.

If you know what to spot and add or correct and can test what works you can become confident with these type of exercises first always before moving on to potting exercises. If you do I think you might better stick with a technique and be better able make any technical improvements a more permanent more natural part of your pre shot routine - because these boring exercises give you the confidence to know you are hitting the ball straight and that you are standing aligning gripping cueing timing and getting down to the ball in the manner that suits you best.

This was not my suggestion by the way it was Steve Davis that suggested players do this exercise first.

But what has he ever won?

[Big Splash!]

^ Yeah, I knew it was Davis' test. He did with a book above his head legend has it, to ensure zero movement. I won't be doing that, not least because no-one would do it for me even if I paid them.

I have come at snooker from a different angle and that reflects who I am. I like to test things out and see what works. It takes a lot of time because you really have to give something three months as Ted says. And you can alter hundreds of things..............Coaches, some of them are dodgy and the literally have no answers to my questions or they teach in a set way; not adapting to the individual. Not all mind, not the good ones. We outgrew the poor coaches long ago.

I do wish to finalise for the next decade and that's what this (hopefully) last change is about; getting older. Getting down (with the shoulder) low Robbo/Trump style isn't comfortable anymore over 3hrs. It's bloody accurate and the long potting is immense and easy, like a rifle. Seeing the balls and table at that height is a joy, everything looks bigger to the eye. But the body doesn't like it so much and I'm not 20 anymore. Younger players out there; give flat down a try, it could work for you.

I'm happy with the rest of my set-up and technique. If I squeeze me shoulder down, I'm accurate, I can pot balls with the best. But if I'm a bit achy or lazy and don't make the effort, I lose half a ball's accuracy over 12ft; knuckle time. If I can cheat by having a slightly higher shoulder/cue rake that requires less physical and places my cue arm/eye into perfect alignment, that's MAGIC!

I'll be on the table in 2hrs and I feel a bit nervous now coach!

[itsnoteasy]

From someone who has to play a bit high at the back because of my back , don't do it unless you really really have to Splasher, it opens a whole can of worms.

[cally]

^ Yeah, I knew it was Davis' test. He did with a book above his head legend has it, !

His dad held a cue above is head. Not a bloody book.. think about it, instead of parroting stuff you read and have no real clue what you speak of...

how close would he had to stand to hold a book.. that would have been very distracting. it doesn't even make sense.. he held a cue above his head to stop him lifting his head. Simple as that....

Lol

[Big Splash!]

From someone who has to play a bit high at the back because of my back , don't do it unless you really really have to Splasher, it opens a whole can of worms.

Life is full of comprises mate. I spend enough time doing the box splits and other ridiculous exercises on my joints for martial arts. I need Zen at snooker. Inner peace above all things, even breaks and winning. I want to max the enjoyment of the game from now till me coffin.

[itsnoteasy]

Life is full of comprises mate. I spend enough time doing the box splits and other ridiculous exercises on my joints for martial arts. I need Zen at snooker. Inner peace above all things, even breaks and winning. I want to max the enjoyment of the game from now till me coffin.

True, it is, but if my shoulder was hurting I would rather put more kink in my bridge arm and keep lower and see if that worked, but if you have to you have to.

[Big Splash!]

True, it is, but if my shoulder was hurting I would rather put more kink in my bridge arm and keep lower and see if that worked, but if you have to you have to.

It's a tricky one. I did find a way of getting level to the table without using foot-in-line and no ache but it's a bit radical; the Alex Higgins set-up mate. Amazingly, it worked really well. R ft on the shot line but pointing out to the R, Left foot well fwd a step and pointing left with the L leg nearly straight, not bent as most coaches recommend. Shoulder down, bent arm bridge. But that's another thread I guess. Like JVC says: play it like Alex!

Man, I need to sit down and write the compendium of snooker set-ups for INMB's coaching book. The diagrams would be a hoot. It might look a bit like the visuals of the patterns in a TKD license book. 'This week I'm mostly playing like Terry Griffiths! lol'

The prob with increasing the bent arm bridge is that it extends the BtB as well and it really feels weird and a lack of control in making the BtB longer again after spending so much time making it shorter from 11 > 8. But yeah, you've pointed to a solution that may help others reading out there. It could work for them if they already have a longer BtB.

* I nearly forgot, have you tried Ibuprofen for your sessions? Slipping a couple down an hour before on a bad day does help. Depends on severity I guess.

[tmax]

Have you filmed yourself from different angles, with BOTH techniques

My thoughts would be, to be careful about dropping the elbow to early in the delivery with the higher left shoulder technique

I find when I do this the cue leaves the chin, before striking - this then gives you more power because you are striking with the shoulder If everything stays straight all well and good, but with power it usually doesn't

Watch Ronnie, and you find his chin is on the cue at impact - then as his elbow drops he lowers his head to keep contact as the cue flattens out