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Video of Maximum Throw/Squeeze at Different Speeds and Angles

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  • #16
    This threads got at least another 985 posts to go, Biggie where are you? It's time to go bear hunting again!! Wahoo!!!
    βšͺ πŸ”΄πŸŸ‘πŸŸ’πŸŸ€πŸ”΅πŸ’—βš«πŸ•³οΈπŸ˜Ž

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    • #17
      Originally Posted by vmax View Post
      I'm with Mike all the way, you need to convince me that this throw happens on every shot as you and Dr. Dave can only 'prove' this when three or more balls are contacting together.
      Actually, you can probably prove or disprove it by downloading the snooker version of my printable tools. There are six tools in the set, but I believe that the two tools called RotoThrotractor and The Gauntlet will show you very vividly that throw exists and to what degree depending upon spin and speed. The Gauntlet allows you to set up guards that restrict the path of the cue ball when shooting a shot. You have less than 1mm of error or you will strike a guard on either side.

      Point the RotoThrotractor at the center of a pocket from, say, 4 feet away or more. Perhaps set up a 30 degree (theoretical 1/2-ball) shot with the guards (either extra balls or upside-down golf tees) on The Gauntlet in place. As long as you strike the vertical center of the cue ball (so that no side spin-induced throw is involved) and the cue ball evades the guards, the object ball should be pocketed dead center. If it doesn't go dead center or misses the pocket entirely, throw made that miss happen.

      I'm not declaring that you're all wrong. I'm just suggesting that you test it out. The tools are free. Again, I haven't played on a snooker table yet. I want to. I'd love to discover playing conditions where throw wasn't involved. Maybe the cloth really does make that big of a difference. I'm open to finding out.

      Download link:
      https://cueandme.com/billiard-training-tools/
      Jeff
      https://cueandme.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj9...0LPtRN_zQx-DOA
      https://www.facebook.com/CueAndMe

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      • #18
        Originally Posted by CueAndMe View Post
        Actually, you can probably prove or disprove it by downloading the snooker version of my printable tools. There are six tools in the set, but I believe that the two tools called RotoThrotractor and The Gauntlet will show you very vividly that throw exists and to what degree depending upon spin and speed. The Gauntlet allows you to set up guards that restrict the path of the cue ball when shooting a shot. You have less than 1mm of error or you will strike a guard on either side.

        Point the RotoThrotractor at the center of a pocket from, say, 4 feet away or more. Perhaps set up a 30 degree (theoretical 1/2-ball) shot with the guards (either extra balls or upside-down golf tees) on The Gauntlet in place. As long as you strike the vertical center of the cue ball (so that no side spin-induced throw is involved) and the cue ball evades the guards, the object ball should be pocketed dead center. If it doesn't go dead center or misses the pocket entirely, throw made that miss happen.

        I'm not declaring that you're all wrong. I'm just suggesting that you test it out. The tools are free. Again, I haven't played on a snooker table yet. I want to. I'd love to discover playing conditions where throw wasn't involved. Maybe the cloth really does make that big of a difference. I'm open to finding out.

        Download link:
        https://cueandme.com/billiard-training-tools/
        Doesn’t matter what you show him he isn’t having it. He’s seen plenty of videos on here proving object balls throw last year.
        As for Sigal words fail me! Someone who can actually play the game and yet can’t see the wood from the trees lol
        Last edited by travisbickle; 4 November 2018, 05:02 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally Posted by Cue crafty View Post
          This threads got at least another 985 posts to go, Biggie where are you? It's time to go bear hunting again!! Wahoo!!!

          Lol. The site is pretty boring since Biggie got banned.

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          • #20
            Originally Posted by CueAndMe View Post
            Actually, you can probably prove or disprove it by downloading the snooker version of my printable tools.
            How can you have a snooker version when you didn't know that snooker cloths have a nap on them ?

            I have contacted Dr. Dave and he hasn't done any experiments on a napped cloth either, it's all US pool with napless cloths, bigger balls, five inch wide pockets and a cueist who couldn't make a 20 break on a snooker table his action was so poor, so no I'm not convinced and never will be until someone shows me a top snooker player who has learned about 'throw' from online videos and coaching aids and puts it to his advantage by winning tournaments.

            All of Dr. Dave's videos showed multiple ball combination shots or had the cue ball very close to the object ball to prove this throw.
            Something else is happening in these situations, we snooker players call it squeeze and it happens when the final object ball is being pushed by the cue ball/other balls in the combination, or by the cue ball alone when it is very close, the reason why push shots are outlawed in snooker as you can create different angles by doing this, prolonging contact by pushing the balls before they finally break apart.

            I'll bet there isn't a top player on the planet who adjusts his aiming point depending on where he strikes the cue ball on the centre vertical line of the cue ball because of this alledged throw, side spin yes but only because the cue ball deflects and swerves with the spin and this needs to be adjusted for.

            I have proven to myself that side induced throw doesn't happen on a dead straight shot, Dr. Dave insists it only happens on cut shots, cue ball yes as it's reacting to the nap on the cloth but not the object ball.

            The forum went through the side induced throw subject in great depth previously and it descended into nothing more than abusive slagging from a troll calling himself Hello Mr. Big Shot.
            travisbickle wasn't far behind him, and low and behold he's back again, been lying in wait for this to come up again no doubt.

            Check out the thread mate, it's many pages long and I'm not going through all that again, I've said my piece and that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.
            Speak up, you've got to speak up against the madness, you've got speak your mind if you dare
            but don't try to get yourself elected, for if you do you'll have to cut your hair

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            • #21
              I did know about the nap on snooker tables, I just didn't know that the nap was a large enough factor to somehow cancel out the throw effect. I still have serious doubts, but I'm willing to suspend judgment until I experience it. The snooker versions of my printable tools are the same as the pool and carom versions, but they are designed to conform to 52.5mm snooker ball diameters.

              I'm sorry to bring back such a touchy subject, but one thing that I find curious is that people (pool players as well) wouldn't notice the difference between where they need to aim a shot above about 25 degrees with topspin vs. where they need to aim the very same shot when using stun or soft screw. Again, I can't account for the cloth nap differences. But a 30 degree pool shot with topspin on the cueball is aimed barely outside of the edge of the ball, whereas the same 30 degree shot with stun has to be aimed up to about 1/16th of a ball beyond the edge. For a pool ball that's 3.6mm outside of the edge. For a snooker ball that would be 3.3mm outside of the edge.

              I don't want to belabor the issue and cause anyone stress. I just want to offer a way to test it for yourselves. The tools are designed to keep us honest about what we're actually doing and show us how we may have been subconsciously compensating elsewhere. To pot difficult balls in snooker and even lowly big-pocket pool, we need incredible precision. Without knowing what part of our technique is failing us, it is difficult to know what part to work on. I think these tools can help to diagnose these problems.

              On the AZB forum there has been a decade-long vicious debate on an unrelated subject. Once we've planted our flags on one side of an argument, it is difficult for us humans with our giant egos to debate with the sole purpose of uncovering the truth. It instead becomes all about winning, regardless of truth. And even if we lose, cognitive dissonance convinces us that we were right somehow.
              Jeff
              https://cueandme.com/
              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj9...0LPtRN_zQx-DOA
              https://www.facebook.com/CueAndMe

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              • #22
                CueAndMe, here’s some interesting Sunday night reading for you, enjoy the videos as well:

                http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...gainst-the-nap

                http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...-SIT-or-No-SIT

                http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...no-more-coming

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                • #23
                  Wow! Thank you??
                  Jeff
                  https://cueandme.com/
                  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj9...0LPtRN_zQx-DOA
                  https://www.facebook.com/CueAndMe

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally Posted by markz View Post
                    Markz - I felt a disturbance in the force! Good to know you are still around, just returning myself after a summer vacation from the Dark halls of snooker.

                    Still haven't tried one of the old blue diamonds from Ramon yet, as the Phoenix laminate has been consistent. I think the time has come to retip my second cue with one though to get it bagged in.

                    How's tricks? 😉
                    βšͺ πŸ”΄πŸŸ‘πŸŸ’πŸŸ€πŸ”΅πŸ’—βš«πŸ•³οΈπŸ˜Ž

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                    • #25
                      Originally Posted by Cue crafty View Post
                      Markz - I felt a disturbance in the force! Good to know you are still around, just returning myself after a summer vacation from the Dark halls of snooker.

                      Still haven't tried one of the old blue diamonds from Ramon yet, as the Phoenix laminate has been consistent. I think the time has come to retip my second cue with one though to get it bagged in.

                      How's tricks? ��
                      I’m good cheers mate, got a bit fed up with the game so not been playing much. Hence not much interest in the forum either. I used one of those old blue diamonds the other day for a guy at my club, it played really nice. I reckon this thread could make a century of pages if everyone returns lol.

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                      • #26
                        Yes. Can understand that, I'm trying to keep it fun to keep any frustration at bay. It's always a nice game to return to when the weather takes a turn for the worse. Good to hear the old blue diamonds have not aged into rocks!

                        I think everything was covered in that 1000+ post thread and at the end of it people are divided on opinion still and probably always will be.
                        βšͺ πŸ”΄πŸŸ‘πŸŸ’πŸŸ€πŸ”΅πŸ’—βš«πŸ•³οΈπŸ˜Ž

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