Air shot - foul?

[timcunnell]

Hey guys. Can't believe I don't know the answer to this really!! I was playing an 8-ball league game last week, and (after a couple of beers!) found myself trying to play a tricky shot where the CB was very near the OB in such a way that it was hard not to play a push shot. (in my league loads of players just play push shots as if its fine, and actually you hardly see them called as fouls - and I don't think half the players even realise they've played a push!!).

Anyway - I digress. I was trying to play a jabby little stroke in order not to play a push shot, and (although I made a clear attempt) I failed to follow through enough in order to strike the cue ball. What you might call an air-shot, or a swing-and-a-miss. I was almost going to call a foul on myself for this, but I wasn't sure it was a foul. And the ref didn't call a foul either. So I carried on, and played a different shot in the end.

I've since tried to look for the answer but cannot seem to find a definitive ruling!? So I just wondered if this is a foul in 8-ball, and also whether the same ruling applies in snooker?

Thanks!

[gavpowell]

I don't understand - if you didn't hit any balls with the cue,how can it be a foul?

[DeanH]

no foul, as a strike has not been played, you may look a wally but no foul

a strike is defined as the cue ball being contacted by the tip - no contact, no strike, no foul.

[Londonlad147]

First, if you've not made contact with the cue ball then it can't be a foul, either in pool (at least not in World Rules) or snooker.

Second, in World Rules pool, most push strokes are allowed! This is what the rules actually say.

O. Push Shots and Double Hits
1) DEFINITIONS: Generally, any shot played with speed will not be deemed to be a Push Shot regardless of the fact that the cue tip may have come into contact with the Cue Ball more than once.
2) EXCEPTIONS that are Standard Fouls:-
a) When, during the playing of a shot, the tip of the cue strikes the Cue Ball twice and the referee is able to actually see each contact.
b) When, during the playing of a shot, a player plays the cue so slowly through the Cue Ball that the cue tip remains in contact with the Cue Ball so as to be visibly pushing it along.
c) When the Cue Ball is played into a touching Object Ball.

Furthermore, if you're touching two balls, at least one of which is your colour, then you can play directly into a touching ball!

S. Touching Balls
1. GENERAL
a) If the Cue Ball is touching an Object Ball, the player is obliged to "Play Away" from that Object Ball at an angle of more than 90 degrees. (That is, play the shot without causing the Cue Ball to make any initial further contact with that Object Ball)
b) If, when playing away from a touching ball, the touching ball rocks or moves without being contacted further, but simply because the Cue Ball is no longer there, no penalty will apply.
2. Playing away from two or more touching Object Balls:- If any of the touching Object Balls are of the player's Colour, the player will be deemed to have played away if the player plays away from any one of the touching balls of the player's Colour. That is, the player may play into any of the other touching balls. The player needs then to only pot a ball or cause any ball to strike a cushion to fulfil the requirements of a Legal Shot

[DeanH]

Which rules are you playing?

In World Rules, sec C.2 "...To "Play" the Cue Ball is to strike it with the tip of the cue."

[rdsalt]

Push shots are pretty much allowed in world rules as per rule O. above but push shots are a foul in Blackball. Personally I think push shots should be a foul as in snooker, but having said that the world rules definition can save a lot of arguing on match nights.

[timcunnell]

Thanks very much guys! I think because I am a golfer I've always (wrongly!) assumed a shot to be deemed as an attempt at hitting the ball. In golf, if you completely miss the ball, that counts as a shot! Glad to see that I hadn't fouled then!

And thanks very much for the information regarding the push shot. That is worth knowing! However, I am surprised at this rule. In snooker, its just a given that a push shot is played if the white travels forward significantly. Perhaps due to the poor quality refereeing in pub leagues!! (in mine at least - when I am the one ref-ing!!)

[GregTSmith]

Are we talking American-8 or Black ball? If we're talking WEPF rules, a push shot is a foul.

Section K:Standard Fouls
Article 15: (Standard Fouls Are to be called by the referee as soon as they occur and the fouled player is in control, until
all balls from that shot come to rest. The referee then awards two visits to the opponent.)...Playing A Push Shot or Double Hit

[Smeeagain]

Are we talking American-8 or Black ball? If we're talking WEPF rules, a push shot is a foul.

Section K:Standard Fouls
Article 15: (Standard Fouls Are to be called by the referee as soon as they occur and the fouled player is in control, until
all balls from that shot come to rest. The referee then awards two visits to the opponent.)...Playing A Push Shot or Double Hit

yes but he said quite clearly that he didn't actually hit the ball.......so no push shot and no foul

[sharkster63]

If you were playing golf it would have counted, attempt counts as a stroke, not in pool. Cheers

[Shanizzo]

Definitely no foul.
To have played any kind of "stroke" the cueball has to have moved.
Unless of course, you move a ball with anything other than the cue-tip, which is obviously a foul stroke!