Don't want to improve?

[tedisbill]

Are there people who don't want to improve? That's my question.

You know the people that say they're trying to improve. They're apparently doing all the correct things and really working to improve their game. But then whenever somebody points out an absolutely glaring problem with their game, they absolutely refuse to accept that it's an issue.

Like maybe telling someone a certain shot to play, and explaining the reasons for playing that shot, and then they just get down and play something their own way anyway.

Or pointing out a massive technical problem in someone's technique, and then them just basically almost refusing to acknowledge it. But it would be pointless concentrating on any aspect of technique at all unless this really fundamental problem is fixed.

So, are some people just enjoying saying they're trying to improve, but not actually REALLY doing anything about it?

[armstm]

it's very easy to be defensive when you're the worst or near worst player in the room. I know from experience. I also know that you're right, with terrible players (like myself) there is 1 or 2 glaring mistakes - but also many other mistakes which actually are mainly irrelevant.

it's focusing on the main glaring mistake which is key, and one reason why people get defensive is because some guy who has spent 10 minutes looking at ur game and then pronounces his wisdom *may, just may* have picked the wrong mistake.

i'll give u an example.

I used to have no formal technique, no walk into the shot, and my elbow position was like joe swails. I saw a number of coaches, listened to a number of players who all said, u need to walk into the shot, you need get your elbow like this. my game if that was even possible got worse.

it was only recently when I videoed myself cueing along the balk line that I discovered my head wasn't on the line of aim standing up right-handed, as I walked onto the shot it veered to the left (weight transfer I guess as I walked into the shot) and then corrected and ended up on the right of the aim, with the result I tilted my head. my cue hand was not on the line of aim and as a result I cued across every shot to make the cue shoot down the balk line.

when I got down left-handed (I'm ok left-handed at other sports) - head was on the line of aim continuously as was cue hand.

I've had coaching right-handed, thought about technique right-handed. I've never had coaching left-handed and I've never worried about technique left handed.

I think that's one reason why people might not want to accept advice - but that's just my 2c.

Are there people who don't want to improve? That's my question.

You know the people that say they're trying to improve. They're apparently doing all the correct things and really working to improve their game. But then whenever somebody points out an absolutely glaring problem with their game, they absolutely refuse to accept that it's an issue.

Like maybe telling someone a certain shot to play, and explaining the reasons for playing that shot, and then they just get down and play something their own way anyway.

Or pointing out a massive technical problem in someone's technique, and then them just basically almost refusing to acknowledge it. But it would be pointless concentrating on any aspect of technique at all unless this really fundamental problem is fixed.

So, are some people just enjoying saying they're trying to improve, but not actually REALLY doing anything about it?

[Byrom]

Some people are just stubborn - I saw a guy get coached once - he was a scooper if you know what I mean - he practised a lot solo - and this scooping of the shot was probably ingrained - I had myself mentioned it to him myself that he should adjust his stance to get a bit more level n drive through the ball and stop scooping and demonstrated it but he did not listen - he said he had booked a lesson with a qualified coach.

Anyway weeks past and I was there when this bloke turned up - I smiled as he told him the same kind of thing I had - but he did a bit more adjusted his stance guided him into position helping him to understand how the shot should feel by taking hold of his cue and making him push thro the white.

Anyway he seemed to get it and was potting everything - when his coaching was up and as soon as he was on his own at the club I noticed within ten mins his stance was back to normal and he was back to scooping the shot -

Waste of money there - some people I guess don't have the patience to in bed these things they expect pay coaching have an hour or two and get instant results - it don't work like that - it takes many hundreds of hours practice. It kind of annoyed me he asked me for advice and then paid no attention to the guy telling them the same thing as the guy who charges 30 pounds an hour - I took it to heart and never showed him anything else when I played him after that but it was not personal really as he never listened to the coach either.

Some people maybe just have that stubborn streak and don't listen or care to listen properly. leave em to it

[armstm]

or he didn't realise he was doing it.

Some people are just stubborn - I saw a guy get coached once - he was a scooper if you know what I mean - he practised a lot solo - and this scooping of the shot was probably ingrained - I had myself mentioned it to him myself that he should adjust his stance to get a bit more level n drive through the ball and stop scooping and demonstrated it but he did not listen - he said he had booked a lesson with a qualified coach.

Anyway weeks past and I was there when this bloke turned up - I smiled as he told him the same kind of thing I had - but he did a bit more adjusted his stance guided him into position helping him to understand how the shot should feel by taking hold of his cue and making him push thro the white.

Anyway he seemed to get it and was potting everything - when his coaching was up and as soon as he was on his own at the club I noticed within ten mins his stance was back to normal and he was back to scooping the shot -

Waste of money there - some people I guess don't have the patience to in bed these things they expect pay coaching have an hour or two and get instant results - it don't work like that - it takes many hundreds of hours practice. It kind of annoyed me he asked me for advice and then paid no attention to the guy telling them the same thing as the guy who charges 30 pounds an hour - I took it to heart and never showed him anything else when I played him after that but it was not personal really as he never listened to the coach either.

Some people maybe just have that stubborn streak and don't listen or care to listen properly. leave em to it

[Byrom]

yeah good point - might be - as it is so easy not to be aware of dropping back into old natural habits.

Got to persevere sometimes as it seems like a technical change seems like a step back at first - people try something that does not feel natural at first and I think its simply that they don't give it enough time.

[armstm]

I am now getting defensive

yeah good point - might be - as it is so easy not to be aware of dropping back into old natural habits.

Got to persevere sometimes as it seems like a technical change seems like a step back at first - people try something that does not feel natural at first and I think its simply that they don't give it enough time.

[Leo]

I've said many times that snooker is no easy fix and for many they really just have to enjoy the game because they really haven't got the time to put the groundwork in. Yes for many of us it was easier as we started around when we left school and living with our parents so work was less important then practicing.

[Byrom]

I am now getting defensive

Oh that's all-right buddy - I was not directing my comments at you personally just making an observation - I seen a few players who are the same way inclined - Les on this forum would be one candidate perhaps?

A teacher or coach only opens the door and shows the way - it is the pupil that must put the effort in to walk through it - if he chooses not to that's up to him he can choose to stay in the same place. No bother

[armstm]

the other thing I'd point out is that it always easier to see other people's mistakes than your own. this is true in snooker, investing, relationships, life in general!

if you want to improve then yes take note of what *good* players say and ignore what poor players say. video yourself. make a list of things you are doing wrong and tackle them in a systematic way.

Oh that's all-right buddy - I was not directing my comments at you personally just making an observation - I seen a few players who are the same way inclined - Les on this forum would be one perhaps.

A teacher or coach only opens the door - it is the pupil that must put the effort in to walk through it - if he chooses not to that's up to him he can choose to stay in the same place. No bother

[Byrom]

the other thing I'd point out is that it always easier to see other people's mistakes than your own. this is true in snooker, investing, relationships, life in general!

if you want to improve then yes take note of what *good* players say and ignore what poor players say. video yourself. make a list of things you are doing wrong and tackle them in a systematic way.

Yes good advice - if you are aware and objective - some people understand the game to be able to improve themselves naturally like this over time - but others cant spot the mistakes - don't know how to correct them or understand why doing something technical might help their game in particular.

I can play -have made a few good breaks and if I went to a coach it would be akin to going for an MOT - he might tell me one or two small things to work on and I would be happy with that -

A beginner would have a lot of stuff - they always rush wanting it all too soon and mess up the basics which are the most important bits.

[Csmith]

Many do not know how to learn properly. Most people when attempting any activity think that practicing is simply partaking in said activity a lot until you improve. Some people are on various levels of spectrum, but ultimately I'm certain this is why a lot of players plateau at lower skill levels.

Snooker however is tricky in that once you are down on the shot all of your mechanics are working outside of your field of vision. All you can see is if the cue is moving straight and if your bridge hand is solid. So on the days where your cue action is dead straight it's tough to know what you are doing differently.