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Thread: whats the best way 2 remeber potting angles?

  1. #11
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    do we point our nose at bob or the cue line of aim . thanks

  2. #12
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    I just knew someone would ask this question because there's always an argument since except for a straight in pot the line of aim of the cue is always offset from BOB.

    My answer is the eyes ALWAYS focus on BOB, no matter what the angle of the pot. However there is one instance where there is a definite aiming point which can be seen, and that is the exact 1/2-ball pot where the cue is aimed exactly at the outside edge of the object ball on its waistline. (But who can look at a pot and say 'that's an EXACT 1/2-ball pot').

    However, if you think about it, any pot that is less than 1/2-ball the cue is actually aimed OUTSIDE the object ball and for those who argue you must have your eyes on the line of aim of the cue then I hope one of them can tell me exactly how they would do that since the cue lines up on open air (or maybe an air molecule if their vision is that good).

    But again to make this more clear for the doubters out there. Let's say your cueball is near the pink spot and you have a very fine cut into the middle pocket. Where would every player focus their eyes? Certainly they wouldn't look at some spot outside that object ball and also certainly they wouldn't line up their eyes with a spot on the baulk cushion which would be hard to define.

    So what are we really doing with the eyes? In fact whether conciously or unconciously we are all attempting to get the cueball into a plant position when it contacts that object ball and what we focus on is the edge of the object ball which in this case happens to be that damned BOB again! (And this also happens to be what's called the 'Ghost Ball' system of aiming)

    What really happens is a player learns potting angles by first attempting to get the cueball to cover an arc of the object ball so the leading edge of the cueball contacts the object ball at the plant position along the waistline of the ball. His eyes will not try and focus on a point about 1" outside of the object ball with my example of the very fine middle pocket cut but rather he will focus on the edge of the object ball and attempt to get the leading edge of the cueball to contact that point. (There's that damned BOB again!)

    Then through experience, which takes very little time at all, every player learns the potting angle required for every pot at any angle and he looks at the object ball with his eyes and attempts to get the leading edge of the cueball to contact BOB.

    To those who say, but Terry, since we use hand-eye coordination in snooker shouldn't our eyes be more correctly looking at the point of aim of the cue since the forearm and grip hand will follow the eyes? My response is, not necessarily so because the brain very quickly learns what the aim-off of the cue should be from BOB and unconcously adjust for that by figuring out where the leading edge of the cueball will contact BOB. (By the way, BOB never changes, no matter where the cueball is.)

    And I will repeat YET AGAIN...99.9% of pots (barring kicks) are missed BECAUSE THE PLAYER DOESN'T DELIVER THE CUE STRAIGHT. I will also repeat this little nugget...although I don't recommend it when playing a frame if you get down on the line of aim correctly, do your feathering and then CLOSE YOUR EYES, as long as you deliver the cue straight you WILL pot that ball (so you do not have to be looking at either BOB or the spot where the tip is lined up to in order to pot a ball because you should have correctly determined the correct line of aim WHEN YOU WERE STANDING UP BEHIND THE SHOT).

    Sorry for the long explanation but I for sure know someone would have argued that the eyes MUST be lined up on the point of aim of the cue and that just isn't correct because you cannot line up (or see) a molecule of air outside the edge of the object ball.,

    And if you don't believe me ask Nic Barrow or Terry Griffiths or Del Hill the same question and I guarantee you will get the same answer as I've given here

    Terry
    Last edited by Terry Davidson; 7th June 2011 at 02:50 AM.

  3. #13
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    I guess I could have answered a little shorter....something like DUH, do you think you can line your eyes up on thin air?

    (But I was trying to be clear and also a little diplomatic) however if you put a little thought into it before asking the question I think you would have come up with the correct answer I could have given in one word...'BOB'

    Terry
    Last edited by Terry Davidson; 8th June 2011 at 12:21 AM.

  4. #14
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    wezza:

    And actually to answer your orignal question on this post again but a little more clear. You don't have to remember the potting angles because there are thousands of them and you can't possibly remember them all.

    When standing behind the shot and selecting your point of aim you will unconciously be using the 'ghost ball' method of aiming for ANY pot, and that is to imagine another cueball sitting in the plant position on the object ball and then aiming the cue for the centre of that imaginary cueball.

    There might be one or two purists on here that will say the correct potting angle is not ALWAYS that plant position (or BOB if you like) because of the friction of the cloth. My response is if you use the ghost ball method and imagine covering an arc of the object ball which is the plant position you will pot every shot (if you deliver the cue straight) and that is why no one tries to remember the thousand or so different potting angles for every possible shot on the table. You just can't do that.

    Just remember the plant theory and work on delivering your cue straight and also remember only the very top professionals can deliver the cue straight consistently and even they screw up once in awhile and miss a pot here and there and you'll hear Dennis Taylor say something like 'he delivered his cue left-to-right on that missed pot'

    Terry

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    Hi Terry,

    I hpe that you can help me with this issue as it keeps confusing me .
    I beleive that the subconcious mind can easily determine the line of aim of the most difficult shots just by taking the quickest glance on the shot.
    But how do you guarantee landing correctly on that line while dropping down ,especially if you can't aim correctly after you are locked on the shot ?
    another weird thing is that when i am allligned correctly ,the shot appears extremely wrong from down.but i play it and it goes into the pocket center ? does this make sense.

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    I may be showing myself up here, but what is "BOB"?
    Not heard of that term before.
    Cheers

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanH View Post
    I may be showing myself up here, but what is "BOB"?
    Not heard of that term before.
    Cheers
    Back Of Ball .. it's the point of contact between the white and object which sends the object into the center of the pocket.

  8. #18
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    Thanks for that, "back of ball" - a term for something that I have always been doing, well there you go!?!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by farlex11 View Post
    Hi Terry,

    I hpe that you can help me with this issue as it keeps confusing me .
    I beleive that the subconcious mind can easily determine the line of aim of the most difficult shots just by taking the quickest glance on the shot.
    But how do you guarantee landing correctly on that line while dropping down ,especially if you can't aim correctly after you are locked on the shot ?
    another weird thing is that when i am allligned correctly ,the shot appears extremely wrong from down.but i play it and it goes into the pocket center ? does this make sense.
    You cannot guarantee landing on the line, but you can make it more likely by doing several things..

    1. Have a set/consistent manner of getting down on the shot i.e. always stand 1ft back from the back leg position (which is under grip hand at address position on the shot). Walk into the shot back foot, front foot, then twist the body and push the front foot hip out before lowering your body down - this keep the head/eyes on the line of aim and allows you to drop directly down on the shot. Some people like to hold the cue across the body and at the twist stage raise the tip up in front so that it can be lowered with the body on the line of aim.

    If things look weird when you're down on the shot it could be one of 2 things.

    1. It looks weird because it's wrong, BUT you're adding side or not hitting the center of the white and this 'corrects' it allowing you to pot balls. I have seen players who hit every ball with left hand side (unintentionally) and yet still pot balls, the reason why is that they have done it for so long it has become consistent, and their brain has learned to compensate, picking the correct line.

    2. It looks wrong because your head/eye position is slightly wrong. Line up a straight long blue, white on baulk, walk into the shot and get down as normal. Now, close first one eye, then the other. What do you see?

    If you're like me, my right eye appears to be sitting to the right of the cue, so the cue angles in a bit from left to right, but the important thing is that if I follow the cue and draw an imaginary line through the white (center) and the object ball to the pocket leather it correctly points at the edge of the leather (where I am aiming the long blue). My left eye however, sees something similar, but slightly 'wrong', the imaginary line does not appear to go through the center of the balls to the pocket leather but slightly off.

    Do either of your eyes look 'right'? If not, close both eyes and turn the head (don't move it, just turn it about the vertical axis) slightly in one direction, then repeat the eye test, test all positions in both directions, unless it gets uncomfortable. Using this it is possible to get each eye directly over the cue, but I do not believe you will want that, unless you are actually blind in one eye, in which case you might consider actually placing the cue to one side of the chin or other.

  10. #20
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    Hi Terry,

    Thanks a lot for your quick response , i will try to test my eyes and head angle as you said although it seems not so simple. (I have a right side dominant eye , and keep changing where i place my cue ,but lately have ben playing with it extremely under my left chin)

    but does this have to do anything with my head angle while i"m standing, should i lock it before i bend down ?

    another weird fact is that i usually play much better when i'm talking on the phone as i have to hold it between by shoulder and left side cheek ,but when i try to use the same angle without a real phone i fail in potting.

    Snooker is weird !!!

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