Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5
Results 41 to 49 of 49

Thread: What do you expect from an coach?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alma, Ontario, CANADA
    This is Terry Davidson's Country Flag

    Posts
    7,314
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by igot99hp View Post
    It took me around around the same to get it down nicely on a pool table but i mean this by trying it during games at the pub never practicing solo etc i don't understand how somebody could practice snooker for 10 years and not screw a ball properly lol.

    Just started playing snooker few months ago and i can screw a ball the length of table from long pots etc but for some reason i just cant break over 30 lol thinking about getting a coach for a few nights a week. I had a pool coach for a while who was really good but just paid him in beers and listing to bull**** stories from his glory days lol,
    When I was coaching a lot the first thing I asked a new student is what he expected to get out of the coaching. I've had one student who was in his mid-30's who said he used to be as good as Ronnie and he expected after a few sessions I could get him 'back' to that standard. I had to be brutally honest with him and I never saw him again.

    I've also had students who expected after one lesson to be able to run 40's and I also had to explain the realities of coaching. It's a fine line to walk to manage a student's expectations without ruining his love for the game.

    I also try and look at a student's natural abilities and technique and try and build around that without a lot of major changes. I try not to teach by the book or 'my way' as who is to say either one is the correct approach for him. The other thing I see a lot of is a student comes with a cue totally unsuitable for snooker or else such a bad tip on it that I have to lend him one of mine while I change his tip.
    Terry Davidson
    IBSF Master Coach & Examiner

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    This is Csmith's Country Flag

    Posts
    376
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    When I was coaching a lot the first thing I asked a new student is what he expected to get out of the coaching. I've had one student who was in his mid-30's who said he used to be as good as Ronnie and he expected after a few sessions I could get him 'back' to that standard. I had to be brutally honest with him and I never saw him again.
    Yikes, in Canada? Where is this flawed savant hiding?

    I'm only, almost as good as Ronnie. Except when people are looking, or are in the room with me. Or when there is a camera on or near me.

    I like your approach to determine what the students expectations are. It's really important to align expectations and goals. A while ago I looked at Nic Barrow's website and I saw the fact sheet that he has students fill out. I thought that was really good, especially the fact that he is trying to determine if he is the right coach for the student. I can tell he's studied education in some form and probably some learner psychology.
    Last edited by Csmith; 12th September 2017 at 12:37 AM.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alma, Ontario, CANADA
    This is Terry Davidson's Country Flag

    Posts
    7,314
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Csmith View Post
    Yikes, in Canada? Where is this flawed savant hiding?

    I'm only, almost as good as Ronnie. Except when people are looking, or are in the room with me. Or when there is a camera on or near me.

    I like your approach to determine what the students expectations are. It's really important to align expectations and goals. A while ago I looked at Nic Barrow's website and I saw the fact sheet that he has students fill out. I thought that was really good, especially the fact that he is trying to determine if he is the right coach for the student. I can tell he's studied education in some form and probably some learner psychology.
    He was from the London area and he really resented paying for the coaching because I told him the truth. I might have been too sarcastic with him as I said 'if you were ever as good as Ronnie you would be a millionaire today'. I'm as good as Ronnie too, but only in the dark and alone. I am a Nic Barrow trained coach and I use something exactly like his fact sheet but usually verbally unless I expect the student to engage in a number of sessions.
    Terry Davidson
    IBSF Master Coach & Examiner

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Posts
    41
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    The hardest thing about coaching is translating the changes/methods/feels you're trying to impress on the client into THEIR language. Every person being coached processes the information given in a different way and the best coaches adapt to each student the best. You have to have a natural rapport with the client for it to work long term. This may be just respect or genuine like as in friendship. The best golf coach I ever had was a complete nob and less likeable than Mr BS. He was however brilliant at translating what I needed into MY language. When he retired I went from a 2 handicap up to an 8 in the space of 3 years as I felt lost! We only ever used to work on "feels" to achieve the correct impact conditions.

    In snooker the tactical side is a step apart in that a lot of players can't self critique and can't learn by being told. They can only learn by seeing their tactics from a 3rd person perspective and changing their play to mirror what their opponent least wants them to do.

    Technique and n snooker is not a natural thing! "Most people will never break 30" is a fair comment. The reason being that most people are self taught from scratch. Compare this with starting to Ski and the vast majority start off in lessons. Learning to ski is far harder yet most people are far more proficient than they'd ever be at snooker. Purely down to having consistent fundamental basics ingrained from the getgo. Being self taught we all have technical flaws (catastrophic deficiencies) and misconceptions that a coach has to work with. Due to this, what gets coached is determined by the client's starting point.

    A player in crisis will benefit from a ground up MOT and minimising the negatives that have put them in crisis. They are the easiest to coach and generally improve very rapidly. Coaching a good/very good player is HARD. For these players I'd be looking for a coach to nurture what works and interrogate what the player feels when things don't work. How many players get up off a missed shot saying "I knew I was down wrong, I should have got up"? Coaching the better players is about finding what triggers the uncertainty and helping the player to negate those actions. Whether it be aiming wrong or standing wrong or getting down lazily or whatever. Being able to play in a subconscious state (technically) and only hearing certain triggers in your head or seeing your objective for each shot comes from that sort of coaching.

    I've really waffles on but quantifying "good" coaching encompasses a lot of different factors.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    This is Csmith's Country Flag

    Posts
    376
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    He was from the London area and he really resented paying for the coaching because I told him the truth. I might have been too sarcastic with him as I said 'if you were ever as good as Ronnie you would be a millionaire today'. I'm as good as Ronnie too, but only in the dark and alone. I am a Nic Barrow trained coach and I use something exactly like his fact sheet but usually verbally unless I expect the student to engage in a number of sessions.
    Very cool. One day I'll get down to your area for some coaching. You can be as honest as you'd like with me!

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Posts
    3,215
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GasMonkey View Post
    The hardest thing about coaching is translating the changes/methods/feels you're trying to impress on the client into THEIR language. Every person being coached processes the information given in a different way and the best coaches adapt to each student the best. You have to have a natural rapport with the client for it to work long term. This may be just respect or genuine like as in friendship. The best golf coach I ever had was a complete nob and less likeable than Mr BS. He was however brilliant at translating what I needed into MY language. When he retired I went from a 2 handicap up to an 8 in the space of 3 years as I felt lost! We only ever used to work on "feels" to achieve the correct impact conditions.

    In snooker the tactical side is a step apart in that a lot of players can't self critique and can't learn by being told. They can only learn by seeing their tactics from a 3rd person perspective and changing their play to mirror what their opponent least wants them to do.

    Technique and n snooker is not a natural thing! "Most people will never break 30" is a fair comment. The reason being that most people are self taught from scratch. Compare this with starting to Ski and the vast majority start off in lessons. Learning to ski is far harder yet most people are far more proficient than they'd ever be at snooker. Purely down to having consistent fundamental basics ingrained from the getgo. Being self taught we all have technical flaws (catastrophic deficiencies) and misconceptions that a coach has to work with. Due to this, what gets coached is determined by the client's starting point.

    A player in crisis will benefit from a ground up MOT and minimising the negatives that have put them in crisis. They are the easiest to coach and generally improve very rapidly. Coaching a good/very good player is HARD. For these players I'd be looking for a coach to nurture what works and interrogate what the player feels when things don't work. How many players get up off a missed shot saying "I knew I was down wrong, I should have got up"? Coaching the better players is about finding what triggers the uncertainty and helping the player to negate those actions. Whether it be aiming wrong or standing wrong or getting down lazily or whatever. Being able to play in a subconscious state (technically) and only hearing certain triggers in your head or seeing your objective for each shot comes from that sort of coaching.

    I've really waffles on but quantifying "good" coaching encompasses a lot of different factors.
    Lol , Good post !!

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Portsmouth
    This is Shockerz's Country Flag

    Posts
    2,439
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Nice post Gas Monkey.

    I arranged for ex pro Ian Glover to do an exhibition for us recently on a Saturday. On the Sunday he coached 12 people in groups or individual sessions which took him all day.

    I was there the whole day to ensure ut went smoothly and talked to every plsyer after their session.
    To a man, they all said he was really nice to ve around, picked up ways to improve really quickly in the lesson but mire importantly, he put it over in a way which was really easy to understand and they all enjoyed their time.
    Ian comes from Doncaster and was just in the South visiting a relatve. He has just started coaching and is Wpbsa level 2, I would give him a call if you are up that way for sure as he coaches out of the Victoria Club from what I'm told.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Posts
    41
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shockerz View Post
    Nice post Gas Monkey.

    I arranged for ex pro Ian Glover to do an exhibition for us recently on a Saturday. On the Sunday he coached 12 people in groups or individual sessions which took him all day.

    I was there the whole day to ensure ut went smoothly and talked to every plsyer after their session.
    To a man, they all said he was really nice to ve around, picked up ways to improve really quickly in the lesson but mire importantly, he put it over in a way which was really easy to understand and they all enjoyed their time.
    Ian comes from Doncaster and was just in the South visiting a relatve. He has just started coaching and is Wpbsa level 2, I would give him a call if you are up that way for sure as he coaches out of the Victoria Club from what I'm told.
    Sounds like he can go on the list of good ones. Once my other half has finished being a scrounging student for the 3rd time I’m going to look to do my levels 1 & 2.

    Coaching in my area is limited and although one of the coaches is very good at diagnosing issues, he doesn’t translate it to pupils and it’s clearly evident.

    The biggest problem I see is clubs have the coach resident who is mates with the owner best or perceived as the best player. Having a quiet enough environment is tough too. There’s a real b******s attitude towards everyone else in clubs now that I never used to see. Sadly the really good amateur players round here with the odd exception seem to think acting like a dick and shouting their conversations is acceptable when other people are playing.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Portsmouth
    This is Shockerz's Country Flag

    Posts
    2,439
    vCash
    1000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GasMonkey View Post
    Sounds like he can go on the list of good ones. Once my other half has finished being a scrounging student for the 3rd time I’m going to look to do my levels 1 & 2.

    Coaching in my area is limited and although one of the coaches is very good at diagnosing issues, he doesn’t translate it to pupils and it’s clearly evident.

    The biggest problem I see is clubs have the coach resident who is mates with the owner best or perceived as the best player. Having a quiet enough environment is tough too. There’s a real b******s attitude towards everyone else in clubs now that I never used to see. Sadly the really good amateur players round here with the odd exception seem to think acting like a dick and shouting their conversations is acceptable when other people are playing.
    That's a shame GasMonkey.

    I have been fortunate with coaches. Both have been pretty easy going, quiet guys who communicate very effectively and focus you on what makes a difference.

    Ian has been a pro, has a high break of 151, plenty of 147's and played everyone in the game who is the best and you get to have a chat about your game, it can't be bad; cannot recommend him highly enough for you guys up North!

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •