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Thread: Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrom View Post
    on the plant you would be hitting the white plain ball but aiming for the side of the red - not the back of the ball - so take away the white for a second and the the contact between the two balls is as if you are playing this shot with side - basically it proves side though minimal can be transferred to the Object ball to effect the line of the shot.

    MR BS loses his patience explaining and people have put various video's up.

    I don't understand the geometry of it full myself - as well as he seems to - but I can play the shots that have been shown as can many others on here. Like I say - its not necessary to be able to explain unless you are a coach or something even then ts not really that important - many players can just do it - that is more important.
    I'd say, using the example you posted, that he is simply adding forward momentum to the 2nd ball by pushing it in that direction with the first, I don't see the need for or any evidence of imparted spin. If I remove the white from the situation, and just hit the first red in the same place, plain ball, it'll go in just the same, so where's the spin? All I've done is push one ball onto another, it hasn't had any time or space to spin, has it.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    Worked fine for me although I skipped the first part where vmax is setting the stage.

    vmax...It's nice to see you took the time and care to establish what happens when two balls make contact, one stationary and one spinning. From that other string of 75 pages or so it seems some people believe there is transferred side which magically generates a 'kick' (not the kick you and I understand but the American "kick of the ball") which only lasts for the couple of microseconds the balls are in contact in that period of time it alters the course of the object ball and then this transferred spin disappears somewhere into the ozone or something.

    The true facts are simple ...there is no transferred spin or at least not enough to do anything to the object ball, in those shots where a player is avoiding an intervening ball he is simply curving the cueball back onto the correct contact point to pot the ball (BOB if you like) by keeping the pace of the shot down to a point where the side can grab again and is in actual fact cuitting across the face of the OB.

    But I expect you will be slated royally by some. Cheers

    It's nice to see results for what I believe is true but I imagine you will be insulted by B.S. and a few others but for myself, I thank you.
    Thanks for your support as well Tel,
    no throw on the OB and no transferred side either which is evident on the full ball contacts, cut induced spin is evident and the cue (10) ball leaves the OB at a different angle because it approaches it from a different angle, but I've never denied that as I use it in billiards all the time to make cannons and losers.

    For those who can dowload and use a video editing tool to slow it down frame by frame you will actually see the slight movement of the 10 ball as it switches from horizontal spin to the 30 degree axis, and on a slow shot this happens very soon after the strike. It's this that can be used to swerve past an intervening ball when snookered by a couple or three or five millimeters, but pace of the shot is crucial to get the correct contact, or at least one that can put it into the side of the pocket.

    I did see some body movement that I've been unaware of all my life, too late to work on that at 60 years of age, and I wasn't even wearing my specs, pockets full of smartphone and holder, would have been better otherwise.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrom View Post
    on the plant you would be hitting the white plain ball but aiming for the side of the red - not the back of the ball - so take away the white for a second and the the contact between the two balls is as if you are playing this shot with side - basically it proves side though minimal can be transferred to the Object ball to effect the line of the shot.

    MR BS loses his patience explaining and people have put various video's up.

    I don't understand the geometry of it full myself - as well as he seems to - but I can play the shots that have been shown as can many others on here. Like I say - its not necessary to be able to explain unless you are a coach or something even then ts not really that important - many players can just do it - that is more important.
    Yes, essentially another way to make the OB deviate from its 'natural' path. Not the same mechanics as spin xfer onto an OB to make it kick but a good analogy.

    <50 breakers don't understand, can't and don't want to. They won't remember the relevant videos being posted either. They can't play screw with reverse side, so anything more advanced will fall on deaf lug holes my friend.

    >50 breakers do understand, for many good reasons. This goes double for side xfer in the other post. It's that simple.

    You're a good dog, clever with your bone, you never mess the house up and you've got a fluffy tummy as well. But that tree you're fond of barking up................
    Last edited by Little Reggie; 20th August 2017 at 03:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrom View Post
    on the plant you would be hitting the white plain ball but aiming for the side of the red - not the back of the ball - so take away the white for a second and the the contact between the two balls is as if you are playing this shot with side - basically it proves side though minimal can be transferred to the Object ball to effect the line of the shot.

    MR BS loses his patience explaining and people have put various video's up.

    I don't understand the geometry of it full myself - as well as he seems to - but I can play the shots that have been shown as can many others on here. Like I say - its not necessary to be able to explain unless you are a coach or something even then ts not really that important - many players can just do it - that is more important.
    The three balls move together for a split second and when they come apart the second OB has been pushed by the other two to a different line, no side needed. This is why push shots are outlawed and how billiards was played with the mace before it was turned around and used as a cue.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatBlock View Post
    I'd say, using the example you posted, that he is simply adding forward momentum to the 2nd ball by pushing it in that direction with the first, I don't see the need for or any evidence of imparted spin. If I remove the white from the situation, and just hit the first red in the same place, plain ball, it'll go in just the same, so where's the spin? All I've done is push one ball onto another, it hasn't had any time or space to spin, has it.

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    Exactly right, no spin needed just one ball being pushed by two others.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    Worked fine for me although I skipped the first part where vmax is setting the stage.

    vmax...It's nice to see you took the time and care to establish what happens when two balls make contact, one stationary and one spinning. From that other string of 75 pages or so it seems some people believe there is transferred side which magically generates a 'kick' (not the kick you and I understand but the American "kick of the ball") which only lasts for the couple of microseconds the balls are in contact in that period of time it alters the course of the object ball and then this transferred spin disappears somewhere into the ozone or something.

    The true facts are simple ...there is no transferred spin or at least not enough to do anything to the object ball, in those shots where a player is avoiding an intervening ball he is simply curving the cueball back onto the correct contact point to pot the ball (BOB if you like) by keeping the pace of the shot down to a point where the side can grab again and is in actual fact cuitting across the face of the OB.

    But I expect you will be slated royally by some. Cheers

    It's nice to see results for what I believe is true but I imagine you will be insulted by B.S. and a few others but for myself, I thank you.
    Lol. Even after 75 tortuous pages, you are still COMPLETELY clueless.

    This ain't for you.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatBlock View Post
    I'd say, using the example you posted, that he is simply adding forward momentum to the 2nd ball by pushing it in that direction with the first, I don't see the need for or any evidence of imparted spin. If I remove the white from the situation, and just hit the first red in the same place, plain ball, it'll go in just the same, so where's the spin? All I've done is push one ball onto another, it hasn't had any time or space to spin, has it.

    -
    Good grief.

    The physics world gives a huge sigh of relief. Actual evidence comes down to what some ramdon bozo on the internet "says".

    Go home, stephen hawking, Pat Block had given something two second's thought and thinks he's got the answer. You ain't needed anymore.

    Once again, *every single shot* you could ever think about is explained in phenomenal detail on dr dave's site.

    Educate yourselves.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hello, Mr Big Shot View Post
    Lol. Even after 75 tortuous pages, you are still COMPLETELY clueless.

    This ain't for you.
    I've backed myself biggie, now it's your turn to come up with something other than your slavish arselicking of Dr. Dave.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYPWoNfyW04
    Last edited by vmax; 20th August 2017 at 04:28 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmax View Post
    OK so I said I would do this and last sunday lunchtime I borrowed my sisters smartphone and filmed myself playing a load of side shots using my 2 & 1/16 inch size spots and stripes pool balls.
    First half of the video is left hand side against the nap into the green pocket, second half is right hand side into the top corner pocket past the pink spot.
    There is a length of blue masking tape alongside the line of aim.

    It's about 30 minutes in all and all aspects of the shots are covered. Only once did I get the same reaction as the Wilson shot (25:30) and that was a bad contact, all other shots the OB went exactly where the contact dictated.

    I played several shots straight into the pocket to show the initial deflection and swerve which differs according to the direction of the shot. You can clearly see the initial deflection and horizontal spin on the 10 ball and the transition to the 30ish degree angle which causes the very slight swerve.
    The ball swerves away from the spin after the initial deflection and swerve when spinning against the nap and swerves with the spin when spinning with the nap. You probably need to download the video and watch it on your pc frame by frame, but if you do you will see that every single contact made apart from the bad one shows no throw of the OB at all.

    All shots are as played to show what difference pace of shot and compensation of aiming does, a couple of miscues as I was playing extreme side and a few misses in the final line up where I played all shots with helping side.

    Discuss and feel free to ask questions and slag me off.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JYJ-39ZzGs

    Patblock kindly adjusted the aspect ratioi so heres a better view

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nElgmNBjPOk&t=18s
    Why didn't you use snooker balls?

    How do you explain where the CB ends up, pretty much every time? It ends up on the right of the OB as we are looking at it - how can that be if you are merely bending the ball to hit the contact point, (which I'm presuming is dead straight). Logically, for a swerve shot, the CB must either follow straight, or, more likely, continue on iis path towards the left. Wilson's shot does the same thing btw. A stationary OB also has an effect on a spinning CB.

    The last few shots show ample evidence of SIT.

    I would have preferred to see you use snooker balls with a snooker cue (or a pool cue with pool balls).

    What make of balls are they?

  9. #19
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    Well I have watched the first couple of minutes, I'm not sure what it's all about, what am I meant to be seeing?
    This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
    https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

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    Quote Originally Posted by itsnoteasy View Post
    Well I have watched the first couple of minutes, I'm not sure what it's all about, what am I meant to be seeing?
    You're seeing something vmax doesn't understand, yet is crowing about.

    Pride before a fall and that. Just scroll to 20 plus minutes.

    You're also seeing someone who pivots lol.

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