Billiards Quiz - what happens next

[cpserrao]

In a game of regular English billiards say you end up potting the opponents ball(white) and cannoning the red. Your ball(yellow) ends up touching the red as a result of the cannon.
What happens next?

1. Since its a touching ball, you can claim position with red on its spot, opponents white on the center spot and your ball in hand to play from the D.
   
2. Since its a touching ball, the red gets spotted and you get your ball in hand while the opponents ball stays in the pocket. Max you can score from this position is a further 15 hazards.
   
3. You can't claim position since the opponents ball is potted. You don't get your ball in hand either. You have to play away from the touching red.
   
4. Combination of one of three options above + something else which theoretically allows you to get all 3 balls in play at some point and keep scoring legally. Provide details/justification if you select this option.

[vmax4steve]

I think its number 3

[cantpotforshíte]

I reckon it's number 2

[Londonlad147]

In a game of regular English billiards say you end up potting the opponents ball(white) and cannoning the red. Your ball(yellow) ends up touching the red as a result of the cannon.
What happens next?

1. Since its a touching ball, you can claim position with red on its spot, opponents white on the center spot and your ball in hand to play from the D.
   
2. Since its a touching ball, the red gets spotted and you get your ball in hand while the opponents ball stays in the pocket. Max you can score from this position is a further 15 hazards.
   
3. You can't claim position since the opponents ball is potted. You don't get your ball in hand either. You have to play away from the touching red.
   
4. Combination of one of three options above + something else which theoretically allows you to get all 3 balls in play at some point and keep scoring legally. Provide details/justification if you select this option.

It is #2...

13. Touching Ball
(a) When the striker‟s ball remains touching another ball, the referee shall state TOUCHING BALL and, following the agreement of both players, Red shall be placed on the Spot, the non-striker‟s ball, if on the table, shall be placed on the Centre Spot, and the striker shall play from in-hand.

[Londonlad147]

I understand though, that the powers that be are considering whether the action on a touching ball should be changed.

[cpserrao]

It is #2...

13. Touching Ball
(a) When the striker‟s ball remains touching another ball, the referee shall state TOUCHING BALL and, following the agreement of both players, Red shall be placed on the Spot, the non-striker‟s ball, if on the table, shall be placed on the Centre Spot, and the striker shall play from in-hand.

Yes, this is what happens. I was discussing this scenario with an ex referee who used to officiate in pro billiards events. He further stated if you manage to score a further 15 hazards from this position (red on spot and your ball in hand) then after the 15th hazard the opponents ball will come back on the table on the brown spot ( so technically its in the baulk) and if you are able to make the cannon from red(assuming its in play outside the baulk) to the opponents ball (on brown spot) then your break continues as usual.
So the correct answer is 4 if the above holds good. Wonder if we have any other referee on this forum who can confirm this?

[Redphex]

He further stated if you manage to score a further 15 hazards from this position (red on spot and your ball in hand) then after the 15th hazard the opponents ball will come back on the table on the brown spot ( so technically its in the baulk) and if you are able to make the cannon from red(assuming its in play outside the baulk) to the opponents ball (on brown spot) then your break continues as usual.

This is not correct. The opponents' cueball will only be placed on the brown spot if you start your break with it off the table (as result of the opponent's last stroke), not if you potted it yourself.

So the answer to the quiz is simply #2.

[Londonlad147]

This is not correct. The opponents' cueball will only be placed on the brown spot if you start your break with it off the table (as result of the opponent's last stroke), not if you potted it yourself.

So the answer to the quiz is simply #2.

Hear! Hear! The opponent's ball will only ever be brought back to the table after 15 hazards if it was as a result of the NON-STRIKER'S last shot.

10. Limitation of Hazards
Consecutive hazards, not in conjunction with a cannon, are limited to fifteen strokes.
(a) After ten such strokes of hazards, the referee shall state TEN HAZARDS. If the referee should fail to announce when ten hazards have been made, the striker shall be entitled to make five more such hazards after the referee does announce TEN HAZARDS.
(b) The referee shall inform the striker upon request how many consecutive strokes of hazards have been made.
(c) If the non-striker‟s ball is off the table as a result of the final stroke of the non-striker‟s last turn, it shall after the fifteenth hazard, be placed on the Middle of the Baulk-line or, if that is occupied, on the right-hand corner of the “D”, viewed from the Baulk end of the table.

[itsnoteasy]

Hear! Hear! The opponent's ball will only ever be brought back to the table after 15 hazards if it was as a result of the NON-STRIKER'S last shot.

10. Limitation of Hazards
Consecutive hazards, not in conjunction with a cannon, are limited to fifteen strokes.
(a) After ten such strokes of hazards, the referee shall state TEN HAZARDS. If the referee should fail to announce when ten hazards have been made, the striker shall be entitled to make five more such hazards after the referee does announce TEN HAZARDS.
(b) The referee shall inform the striker upon request how many consecutive strokes of hazards have been made.
(c) If the non-striker‟s ball is off the table as a result of the final stroke of the non-striker‟s last turn, it shall after the fifteenth hazard, be placed on the Middle of the Baulk-line or, if that is occupied, on the right-hand corner of the “D”, viewed from the Baulk end of the table.

So is the opponents ball in play when placed on the spot or not,it doesn't actually say in that rule.
My thinking is ,if I play an in off red and leave it in baulk, I have ball in hand ,but am I double baulked then? Does a ball have to be judged more in play, to be in play if you know what I mean, if it's on a baulk line spot it should be fifty,fifty, I'm guessing.

[Redphex]

since it is placed on the baulk line, it is not in play.
so yes, you would be double baulked if you left the red in baulk after your 15th hazard.

[Londonlad147]

So is the opponents ball in play when placed on the spot or not,it doesn't actually say in that rule.
My thinking is ,if I play an in off red and leave it in baulk, I have ball in hand ,but am I double baulked then? Does a ball have to be judged more in play, to be in play if you know what I mean, if it's on a baulk line spot it should be fifty,fifty, I'm guessing.

A ball on the baulk line (or spot) is NOT out of baulk, so can't be played directly. From in hand a striker must first hit a ball or cushion out of baulk before hitting a ball in baulk.

[cpserrao]

Hear! Hear! The opponent's ball will only ever be brought back to the table after 15 hazards if it was as a result of the NON-STRIKER'S last shot.

10. Limitation of Hazards
Consecutive hazards, not in conjunction with a cannon, are limited to fifteen strokes.
(a) After ten such strokes of hazards, the referee shall state TEN HAZARDS. If the referee should fail to announce when ten hazards have been made, the striker shall be entitled to make five more such hazards after the referee does announce TEN HAZARDS.
(b) The referee shall inform the striker upon request how many consecutive strokes of hazards have been made.
(c) If the non-striker‟s ball is off the table as a result of the final stroke of the non-striker‟s last turn, it shall after the fifteenth hazard, be placed on the Middle of the Baulk-line or, if that is occupied, on the right-hand corner of the “D”, viewed from the Baulk end of the table.

I stand corrected

[Darren Clark]

Happened to me in the English Open recently in Cambridge. Opponents cue ball stays down, red is re-spotted.

[Railfan87]

Hear! Hear! The opponent's ball will only ever be brought back to the table after 15 hazards if it was as a result of the NON-STRIKER'S last shot.

10. Limitation of Hazards
Consecutive hazards, not in conjunction with a cannon, are limited to fifteen strokes.
(a) After ten such strokes of hazards, the referee shall state TEN HAZARDS. If the referee should fail to announce when ten hazards have been made, the striker shall be entitled to make five more such hazards after the referee does announce TEN HAZARDS.
(b) The referee shall inform the striker upon request how many consecutive strokes of hazards have been made.
(c) If the non-striker‟s ball is off the table as a result of the final stroke of the non-striker‟s last turn, it shall after the fifteenth hazard, be placed on the Middle of the Baulk-line or, if that is occupied, on the right-hand corner of the “D”, viewed from the Baulk end of the table.

I apologise for the newbie-level question, but ... does this mean that if the striker pots his opponents ball, the striker's turn ends after fifteen hazards?

[Londonlad147]

I apologise for the newbie-level question, but ... does this mean that if the striker pots his opponents ball, the striker's turn ends after fifteen hazards?

Yes, it will. The striker will normally play a safety shot, otherwise a further (16th) hazard (accidental or deliberate) would be a foul.