Antique Ivory Billiard Balls once used by Tom Reece in world record break

[Big Splash!]

Was reading a thread here yesterday wherein they were talking about rare woods. Mike Wooldridge stepped in and said chop em all down. Wonder what he'd say about elephants? I know one guy who'd like to see them all shot though. The guy being the kid in the rolo advert remember it?

Yeah, that's called short-sighted greed mate. No surprise. I believe JP only buys from sustainable sources.

[ADR147]

well the ivory is worth a price per gram in china I personally would pay more than that price for these items.

[Big Splash!]

Well the balls I have are not because of the materials. I think the same would be true for every collector of snooker / billiards I know.

You reckon? My old ISBF coach deliberately advertised balls on ebay as 'bone', knowing full well they were ivory. He also knew the target audience would know exactly what they were. Guess where they ended up? Nah, it wasn't Romford mate, those balls got on a plane to China. He made a lot of money from them, which is what he cared about. And that's what most collectors care about. Disgusting IMO. Fueling a cruelty trade. I could say more but it wouldn't be fair to name names.

[ADR147]

You and I both know that ivory sold in London or on ebay will find it's way to China. This is the principle destination for old balls sold as 'bone' to get around regulations. Then its reworked or put in health potions. This fuels demand for fresh ivory. The idea that people aren't collecting ivory is ridiculous. The balls are made of ivory! They're not collecting poly balls, or even TCs. They're interested in these balls because of the material. The material is not incidental.

Well the balls I have are not because of the materials. I think the same would be true for every collector of snooker / billiards I know.

[Big Splash!]

They are not collecting Ivory. People in the western world collect it in the form of antiques that are almost always worth more than the value of the material, and we are not allowed to rework it. In Asia it is still used.

You and I both know that ivory sold in London or on ebay will find it's way to China. This is the principle destination for old balls sold as 'bone' to get around regulations. Then its reworked or put in health potions. This fuels demand for fresh ivory. The idea that people aren't collecting ivory is ridiculous. The balls are made of ivory! They're not collecting poly balls, or even TCs. They're interested in these balls because of the material. The material is not incidental.

[ADR147]

When we in the West make it ok to collect ivory, we give the nod to Asia to do the same, only with today's elephants and rhinos. These animals are being hunted down for no good reason. But hey, it's ok for the West to trade in ivory. Let's just not allow others to do so. Profit should not be made from misery. That you would want something from a magnificent animal cruely and painfully killed says much about you Deano. The DoC has it right and gets my applause.

They are not collecting Ivory. People in the western world collect it in the form of antiques that are almost always worth more than the value of the material, and we are not allowed to rework it. In Asia it is still used.

[ADR147]

Ur

Fair point Dean and understandable. But those said organizations no longer deal in slavery. Illegal poaching and hunting still unfortunately occurs.

Yes, and nobody I know would support that. The cites rules are very clear. In order to prevent poaching you need to prevent the desire for it, that I am afraid is not really a European problem.

[Big Splash!]

Of course I am against poaching and the killing of wild animals for bits of them to be used for human greed and vanities; but to destroy ivory items of art and/or history for what was a legal trade at the time is very narrow and simplistic view.
To extend the analogy, what if all firms/businesses that were established/based/profited/connected to the slave trade were forced to stop trading; then 99% of firms over 150 years established would be affected, not just in the UK, but across Europe, US, Africa, and elsewhere.
There must be a point of separation and Cites (and many other organisations) have done a lot to stop the modern trade and agree separation/boundaries.

For the balls in the OP, I would love to have these, a moment in billiards history never to be repeated.

keef567 - your aunt didn't happen to have the actual cue Tom Reece used as well did she? :biggrin:

When we in the West make it ok to collect ivory, we give the nod to Asia to do the same, only with today's elephants and rhinos. These animals are being hunted down for no good reason. But hey, it's ok for the West to trade in ivory. Let's just not allow others to do so. Profit should not be made from misery. That you would want something from a magnificent animal cruely and painfully killed says much about you Deano. The DoC has it right and gets my applause.

[djax]

Ur

Of course I am against poaching and the killing of wild animals for bits of them to be used for human greed and vanities; but to destroy ivory items of art and/or history for what was a legal trade at the time is very narrow and simplistic view.
To extend the analogy, what if all firms/businesses that were established/based/profited/connected to the slave trade were forced to stop trading; then 99% of firms over 150 years established would be affected, not just in the UK, but across Europe, US, Africa, and elsewhere.
There must be a point of separation and Cites (and many other organisations) have done a lot to stop the modern trade and agree separation/boundaries.

For the balls in the OP, I would love to have these, a moment in billiards history never to be repeated.

keef567 - your aunt didn't happen to have the actual cue Tom Reece used as well did she? :biggrin:

Fair point Dean and understandable. But those said organizations no longer deal in slavery. Illegal poaching and hunting still unfortunately occurs.

[ADR147]

Of course I am against poaching and the killing of wild animals for bits of them to be used for human greed and vanities; but to destroy ivory items of art and/or history for what was a legal trade at the time is very narrow and simplistic view.
To extend the analogy, what if all firms/businesses that were established/based/profited/connected to the slave trade were forced to stop trading; then 99% of firms over 150 years established would be affected, not just in the UK, but across Europe, US, Africa, and elsewhere.
There must be a point of separation and Cites (and many other organisations) have done a lot to stop the modern trade and agree separation/boundaries.

For the balls in the OP, I would love to have these, a moment in billiards history never to be repeated.

keef567 - your aunt didn't happen to have the actual cue Tom Reece used as well did she? :biggrin:

Thank you - we don't burn our history because we don't like what happened!

[DeanH]

Of course I am against poaching and the killing of wild animals for bits of them to be used for human greed and vanities; but to destroy ivory items of art and/or history for what was a legal trade at the time is very narrow and simplistic view.
To extend the analogy, what if all firms/businesses that were established/based/profited/connected to the slave trade were forced to stop trading; then 99% of firms over 150 years established would be affected, not just in the UK, but across Europe, US, Africa, and elsewhere.
There must be a point of separation and Cites (and many other organisations) have done a lot to stop the modern trade and agree separation/boundaries.

For the balls in the OP, I would love to have these, a moment in billiards history never to be repeated.

keef567 - your aunt didn't happen to have the actual cue Tom Reece used as well did she? :biggrin:

[bongo7777]

I sure hope you don't play the piano! You wouldn't want to tickle those old ivories!
And what about the old cues with ivory badges? QUICK go though your collection and crush them!!!

Should be destroyed. No interest in ivory means no demand. Take away the interest and the elephants live on. The Duke of Cambridge destroyed some ivory antiques. Some will say that doesn't bring a dead elephant back to life but it does make ivory collecting taboo and changes attitudes to ivory generally, thus destroying part of the market. Those thinking this is ok really are disgusting. Hats off to the DoC for doing the right thing. Torture balls; wouldn't want them anywhere near me.

Ivory is a great stain on our game. And great stains should be removed; not enjoyed.

Stand up for something or fall for everything.

[perpetualboredom]

Should be destroyed. No interest in ivory means no demand. Take away the interest and the elephants live on. The Duke of Cambridge destroyed some ivory antiques. Some will say that doesn't bring a dead elephant back to life but it does make ivory collecting taboo and changes attitudes to ivory generally, thus destroying part of the market. Those thinking this is ok really are disgusting. Hats off to the DoC for doing the right thing. Torture balls; wouldn't want them anywhere near me.

Ivory is a great stain on our game. And great stains should be removed; not enjoyed.

Stand up for something or fall for everything.

Shut the **** up you argumentative ****ing oink.

[bongo7777]

Hi,
I am interested in them.
Please email me direct machines@macval.com.au
Thanks,
Graham.

[ADR147]

I had an elderly aunt die a few weeks ago and when sorting her house out i came across a set of ivory billiard balls.
Included with the balls was a small card that states the following:

"The Set of Balls used by me in the 499135 break.
T. Reece"

I understand that this break took place over 5 weeks in 1907.

I also have a letter dated 1968 offering these ivories for sale and the receipt indicating these were a legitimate purchase.

I was hoping that someone would be able to tell me how much these items are worth.

I can send a photo of the balls for your reference if required and they do come in their original leather case

I would be interested in those but in truth you should send them to dominic winter the auction house because they are well you will get the best price.