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Ferrules and Throw and Spin

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  • sanman
    replied
    Yes Ramon. Each cue would have deflection, however I believe that there is no direct correlation between the end mass ferrule density and deflection. I do believe that the tip and the chalking of the cue has a far greater effect on deflecting and that I can prove very simply and very easily

    Originally Posted by Ramon View Post
    T

    Good post !! However , I think each cue has deflection !!! but ultimately it is the technique of the player who makes the result !! The main thing is , what suits ur game and what works for u as a individual (and NOT what works for a pro) !!

    Leave a comment:


  • Ramon
    replied
    T
    Originally Posted by sanman View Post
    I read this thread and shake my head. This issue of throw comes up so often and yet the same questions and answers get thrown back and forth. My take on this issue. Yes there is a theory that having a lighter ferrule and end mass will reduce throw. MY retort to this is WHERE IS THE PROOf?? Yes there are theories and lots of literature published regarding throw but without controlled experiments to verify such theories they remain theories. Is this literature peer reviewed and if so where is the experimental data to verify such results. I work in an engineering enviroment and I have seen first hand the horrendous results of isolated thoeries being accepted as gospel and when applied on the plants have drastic results in terms of performance other that what would have been expected from said theories. I have many cues and frankly I cannot verify to any great certainty that any theory(shaft flex, end mass ect) results in less throw or not. I have noticed that a well chalked cue throws a hell of a lot less than an unchalked cue eh??f
    Good post !! However , I think each cue has deflection !!! but ultimately it is the technique of the player who makes the result !! The main thing is , what suits ur game and what works for u as a individual (and NOT what works for a pro) !!

    Leave a comment:


  • sanman
    replied
    I read this thread and shake my head. This issue of throw comes up so often and yet the same questions and answers get thrown back and forth. My take on this issue. Yes there is a theory that having a lighter ferrule and end mass will reduce throw. MY retort to this is WHERE IS THE PROOf?? Yes there are theories and lots of literature published regarding throw but without controlled experiments to verify such theories they remain theories. Is this literature peer reviewed and if so where is the experimental data to verify such results. I work in an engineering enviroment and I have seen first hand the horrendous results of isolated thoeries being accepted as gospel and when applied on the plants have drastic results in terms of performance other that what would have been expected from said theories. I have many cues and frankly I cannot verify to any great certainty that any theory(shaft flex, end mass ect) results in less throw or not. I have noticed that a well chalked cue throws a hell of a lot less than an unchalked cue eh??f
    Last edited by sanman; 9 March 2015, 03:50 AM. Reason: spelling

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  • Master Blaster
    replied
    Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    Where did you get the idea I wasn't working on that? This is the reason I play like crap on the very slow club tables we play our matches on. The solution is a longer backswing so my acceleration isn't as abrupt. One of my problems is my Precision cloth is as fast as the TV tables so in practice I don't have to use a lot of power for most shots so I'm going to change to a 6811 shortly and let it get very dirty and not block and iron it to duplicate the club conditions. I know I'll soon get peed off at that so I'll probably b e ironing every day but I should stick with it.

    But why should I not try and experiment with other solutions which might help, even if just a little. I wish I could take 50yrs off my age, develop a consistently long and straight backswing along with a defined rear pause but these things are impossible with the 50yrs and difficult with the longer backswing and rear pause, which I've been trying to get natural for awhile now.

    Sometimes it pays to think out of the box once in awhile, no?
    Fair play Terry, I thought you younger for some reason, must be your good looks. Yeah, if a cue can help, I suppose so. But remember Ebdon's Dufferin in all this.

    The 6811 T is a nice cloth. I BBI it before I play and it's got plenty of pace and you can also let it become slow quite quickly, after just a few days play. If you can heat it, it will play nearly as quick as your HP but it won't be as precise because WoE can never be as good as Merino de facto.
    Last edited by Master Blaster; 8 March 2015, 09:53 PM.

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  • Terry Davidson
    replied
    Originally Posted by Master Blaster View Post
    If you're cueing across the ball on power shots, shouldn't h you be working in cueing as well as investing in titanium/LM?
    Where did you get the idea I wasn't working on that? This is the reason I play like crap on the very slow club tables we play our matches on. The solution is a longer backswing so my acceleration isn't as abrupt. One of my problems is my Precision cloth is as fast as the TV tables so in practice I don't have to use a lot of power for most shots so I'm going to change to a 6811 shortly and let it get very dirty and not block and iron it to duplicate the club conditions. I know I'll soon get peed off at that so I'll probably b e ironing every day but I should stick with it.

    But why should I not try and experiment with other solutions which might help, even if just a little. I wish I could take 50yrs off my age, develop a consistently long and straight backswing along with a defined rear pause but these things are impossible with the 50yrs and difficult with the longer backswing and rear pause, which I've been trying to get natural for awhile now.

    Sometimes it pays to think out of the box once in awhile, no?

    Leave a comment:


  • Master Blaster
    replied
    Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    Not a Legend just a custom built MW cue with Blackspin ferrule and medium flex shaft. I have found the throw of this cue to be significantly less than the Acuerate I have here which was the lowest throw model (frankly not very good quality either).

    However I have had the experience of changing from brass to black fiber on a Parris cue I used to use and I definitely found the throw to be less with the fiber. Since I tend to cue right-to-left on power shots and get unintentional side on most power shots I would like to see if I can find a cue/ferrule/tip combination which may reduce the resulting unintentional throw. My own research tells me the laminated shafts will reduce throw without taking away any spin, a medium flex cue will reduce throw and titanium is a lot lighter than either brass, stainless steel (which I've tried) or fiber.

    So I thought I would try a laminated shaft with medium flex and a shorter and thinner titanium ferrule and see what the results are. If I find the titanium has other properties which bother me I can always change the ferrule. I don't think this will happen though and after all the purpose of a ferrule and why they were introduced was to protect the end of the cue and titanium has more strength than brass, fiber or stainless steel.

    The reason I had to change that Parris cue with the fiber ferrule is I had a very bad mis-cue which damaged the tenon and the ferrule and I had to take about 1/2" off the cue and it just wasn't the same any more.
    If you're cueing across the ball on power shots, shouldn't h you be working in cueing as well as investing in titanium/LM?

    Leave a comment:


  • Terry Davidson
    replied
    Originally Posted by Master Blaster View Post
    What happened to being really happy with your Legend?!
    Not a Legend just a custom built MW cue with Blackspin ferrule and medium flex shaft. I have found the throw of this cue to be significantly less than the Acuerate I have here which was the lowest throw model (frankly not very good quality either).

    However I have had the experience of changing from brass to black fiber on a Parris cue I used to use and I definitely found the throw to be less with the fiber. Since I tend to cue right-to-left on power shots and get unintentional side on most power shots I would like to see if I can find a cue/ferrule/tip combination which may reduce the resulting unintentional throw. My own research tells me the laminated shafts will reduce throw without taking away any spin, a medium flex cue will reduce throw and titanium is a lot lighter than either brass, stainless steel (which I've tried) or fiber.

    So I thought I would try a laminated shaft with medium flex and a shorter and thinner titanium ferrule and see what the results are. If I find the titanium has other properties which bother me I can always change the ferrule. I don't think this will happen though and after all the purpose of a ferrule and why they were introduced was to protect the end of the cue and titanium has more strength than brass, fiber or stainless steel.

    The reason I had to change that Parris cue with the fiber ferrule is I had a very bad mis-cue which damaged the tenon and the ferrule and I had to take about 1/2" off the cue and it just wasn't the same any more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ramon
    replied
    Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    Much appreciated as I can try it on one of my other cues here although Richy (The Doctor) is making me a laminated cue which I just ordered. PM coming shortly
    good choice !!

    Leave a comment:


  • Master Blaster
    replied
    Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    Much appreciated as I can try it on one of my other cues here although Richy (The Doctor) is making me a laminated cue which I just ordered. PM coming shortly
    What happened to being really happy with your Legend?!

    Leave a comment:


  • Terry Davidson
    replied
    Originally Posted by YDJ View Post
    Terry, I'll make you a couple.
    I assume you only want plain holed and not threaded?
    Drop me a PM with what you want and I'll sort it out.
    Much appreciated as I can try it on one of my other cues here although Richy (The Doctor) is making me a laminated cue which I just ordered. PM coming shortly

    Leave a comment:


  • YDJ
    replied
    Terry, I'll make you a couple.
    I assume you only want plain holed and not threaded?
    Drop me a PM with what you want and I'll sort it out.

    Leave a comment:


  • golferson123
    replied
    Tight linen weave for throw and brass for hit,you takes your choice

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  • Terry Davidson
    replied
    Originally Posted by golferson123 View Post
    Forget it tel, my ferrule is made of unobtainium and it's shxxe
    So I guess we're left with short and thin-walled brass or fiber to reduce the end weight if someone wants to

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  • golferson123
    replied
    Forget it tel, my ferrule is made of unobtainium and it's shxxe

    Leave a comment:


  • Terry Davidson
    replied
    So...where can one source a titanium ferrule with 5mm in height and around 9.3-9.4mm?

    Leave a comment:

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