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Antique Buroughes and Watt scoreboard

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    Originally posted by Geoff Large View Post
    Thats a 12 player board

    1 white
    2 yellow
    3 green
    4 brown
    5 blue
    6 red

    7 pink
    8 yellow spot
    9 red spot
    10 green spot
    11 white spot
    12 Brown spot
    I did some research on early published rules when looking into the origins of snooker, and I must say I have never come across any sequence which did not start with White, Red, Yellow .... the spot sequence, when it came around, following the same order as the plain.

    Looking at this particular board, it is clear that the Brown/Blue slides have been exchanged although there is something odd going on with the spot side of the board, with the buttons on both the slides and the board having been put in what I would think is the wrong position.

    I must say though, to have all the original buttons is quite rare in my experience as they regularly become loose and fall out. Same with the "stars."

    Incidentally. I don't think that players were ever limited in the size of the pool by the scoreboard they were using. That's probably the reason why a slate was so popular as a central feature.

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  • maryfield
    replied
    Your right Geoff. Unless they have taken the slides out and put back in the wrong order.

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  • Geoff Large
    replied
    Thats a 12 player board

    1 white
    2 yellow
    3 green
    4 brown
    5 blue
    6 red

    7 pink
    8 yellow spot
    9 red spot
    10 green spot
    11 white spot
    12 Brown spot

    i have seen boards with differant combinations of positioning of the colours so do not take this info as gospel to all boards .

    unless they made a 14 player board there was no need to use black but as many say it could be the difficulty in the dye process .

    by the way the slides and buttons do not match upto each other on that board , has someone stuck the centre buttons on in the wrong place , or had the slides out and put them in wrong place ?
    Last edited by Geoff Large; 29 May 2011, 11:42 PM.

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  • franksandellsnooker
    replied
    Thanks so much for your detailed reply though I feel like me we neither of us can arrive at a definitive answer. Your staining theory could certainly be a good reason. I have a set of spot balls with the gaming basket but still no black ball. Perhaps we may get other theories. F.
    .

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    Originally posted by franksandellsnooker View Post
    I wonder 100 uper if you can expand at all on the reason that these life pool boards which can accomodate up to 12 players and were supplied with spot coloured balls for additional players never appear to include the black ball. I have theorised that it is because you never black balled an officer of the mess. Look forward to your thoughts / information on this. Thanks. F.
    I'm not sure I can provide a definitive answer on that one. As you say the black never seems to appear in the sequence for Life Pool as seen on scoreboards, although it does appear in other pool games (Black Pool and Snooker's Pool being well-known examples)

    I'm not sure about your Officer's Mess theory, principally because, unlike snooker, I have seen no evidence that the military had any particular influence on the development of Life Pool which seems to have evolved in the English Public Billiard Rooms.

    It may be of interest that one of the earliest references I have to the rules of the game (Crawley 1866) does mention the black as being part of the game. Crawley's sequence runs: White, Red, Yellow, Blue, Brown, Green, Black, followed by spot White, etc., although I have never actually seen a scoreboard with this sequence.

    Interestingly, in the second edition of Crawley's book (1877) the sequence he describes drops all reference to the Black ball, substituting the Pink. Also the Green, Brown, Blue, follow in the sequence we would consider logical today.

    From this I take it that a standard sequence was agreed between the London billiard table manufacturers some time in the early 1870s. Bearing in mind there was no overall governing body and each manufacturer would at that time publish their own rules of all the popular billiard table games.

    I'm inclined to think that the answer is simply down to the availability of each particular colour (staining of the black was the last to be perfected, and was the most difficult) Also, bearing in mind the fading you would get with ivory balls, an important factor may have been which dyes were better retained, and therefore distinctive in an old set of balls.

    For anyone interested, this is how they used to create or recolour a Black ball in an ivory set:
    Black: (1) Make a strong solution of silver nitrate. After an immersion of several hours the balls are removed and exposed to a strong light. (2) Boil a handful of logwood chips in 1½ pt. of water until the liquid is reduced to ¾ pt. Allow to cool to 100 degrees F., and after staining, place the balls for five minutes in a solution of 1 oz. of sulphate of iron in 1 qt. of water. (3) Make a decoction with water and 1lb. of galls and 2lb. of logwood. The balls require a long immersion in this, and afterwards an immersion of a few hours in acetate of iron.

    Source: "Cassells Cyclopaedia of Mechanics", circa 1890. (page 318)

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  • franksandellsnooker
    replied
    I wonder 100 uper if you can expand at all on the reason that these life pool boards which can accomodate up to 12 players and were supplied with spot coloured balls for additional players never appear to include the black ball. I have theorised that it is because you never black balled an officer of the mess. Look forward to your thoughts / information on this. Thanks. F.

    Leave a comment:


  • maryfield
    replied
    I don`t unfortunately. I have inadvertently cropped the picture. On top of the board there is a woooden vase shaped ornament. I`ll add a better photo. at some point the glass and slate have went missing, presumed broken and the mirror has been repalced but not the slate. I may rectify this prior to selling.

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    One of these is illustrated in the Burroughes & Watts catalogue of 1889 with the following entry:

    ROLLER MARKING BOARD, with carved and
    shaped pediment, No. 42, reversible MIRROR
    and slate en suite with tables to design ... 18 18 0

    Optional extras would have been a matching pool till with ball box (10 10 0) and cabinet with drawers (17 17 0). Don't suppose you have these as well by any chance?

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  • maryfield
    started a topic Antique Buroughes and Watt scoreboard

    Antique Buroughes and Watt scoreboard

    Perhap 100 Upper can provide some information regarding this life pool marking board. Solid oak, its an impressive piece featuring a revolving mirror which would originally have had a slate on the reverse side. Any info would be appreciated.
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