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A Big Bounce ?

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  • #31
    the only reference to loading of rubber is in the book A Trade History a 1980s paper back A4 Book .

    it says the fitter slightly stretches the rubber as he applies it to the block to make contact with the glue , this is my thinking that the rubber is being loaded with energy . I think all fitters experiment , some pre-stretch others do not , I prefer not to and I have tried both ways , the guys I was apprenticed to never did ,and I only came across it in that Trade History book so I experimented .

    Well I tried that and I cannot say it is better than just laying the rubber on unstretched , in fact I would say it is worse for bounce if stretched . please note It says slightly stretched .

    When I apply the rubber onto the pre-glued rubber and wood rebate shelf on the block , I being right handed use my left hand , I know this sounds odd but it feels right for me , I start from my right without putting the rubber on the angle part just on the flat surface first , using my thumb to guide the rubber on and my forefinger to apply pressure , the rubber is feeding through my open hand and applied with a gliding motion down the block to my left , I attend to the angles last , I do not want to go into detailed information because there are fitters out there like myself who have to earn a living doing it , and have had many years learning the trade on low wages .

    it is possible to staple the cloth on too tight when re-covering the cushion , and this can bend the rubber down a bit , but all cloth after a few hours will slacken off a bit . even on the cushions . the knack is to try and get the same tension all the way down the cushion and the same staple spacing's on all cushions .

    From what has been discussed , the Big Bounce to me is from nose of cushion being lower at that point of impact giving a greater bounce than normally achieved elsewhere on the cushions . or the extra spin factor being applied through cue striking action ,a delayed forward or side spin , we have all seen a ball suddenly have a delayed accelerations on the table after impact of the target ball .

    But you can also not disregard a small bubble of air being trapped inside the rubber profile on manufacture . or the spec of dust that a ball has just hit to lift just before impact .

    I would also like to point out , a set of new rubber increases in it's performance when fully bruised in , it takes a few weeks of use in a club to achieve this , if all those cushions used on TV have brand new rubber from the start of the competition , then it is possible for the cushions to still be bedding in , you may get variations of bounce from parts that have had more rebounds .
    On a normal set of cushions ( not steel block ) a ball thrown down the table at speed will travel approx. 4 and a 1/2 lengths on 6811 tournament cloth , after bruising in of the rubber this can increase to 4 and 3/4 lengths to 5 lengths , but it will not happen overnight and the rubber in the transition period may differ in parts until fully bedded in .
    a set of rubber from the manufacturer are from the same batch and all have a date of manufacture on .
    Temperature can also play a part in Cushion performance .

    and last but not least , knots in the wood block that the rubber sits on , Some fitters make their own blocks , this is due to the pre made blocks coming in a set of six with knots in places in the wood , as we know when we saw through a knot it is firmer and harder than the surrounding woodwork , a ball bouncing against a block at the same point as this knot is going to flirt off quicker due to the firmness of the wood at that point , and to prove that point , steel blocks themselves are firmer than wood cushions and they do rebound much further .
    I have not seen a set of blocks supplied by the Billiards trade Retailers to come without knots in , I used to mix and match them to get a good 2 sets out of say 18 blocks , and try and leave the others to cut down for 9ft tables taking out the bad parts . or send the bad ones back to the trade retailer .
    Last edited by Geoff Large; 26 April 2014, 12:27 AM.
    [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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    • #32
      "it is possible to staple the cloth on too tight when re-covering the cushion , and this can bend the rubber down a bit , but all cloth after a few hours will slacken off a bit . even on the cushions . the knack is to try and get the same tension all the way down the cushion and the same staple spacing's on all cushions"

      Thanks for that insight Geoff; that is the bit I was interested in. If the cloth is slackened to the point where it isn't exerting any force to compress the rubber or pull it down after just a few hours, then a rolling ball can't come off the cushion faster than it went on to it. If, however, the rubber is still compressed or pulled down a bit while the table is being played upon, then there is still energy stored that could be released.

      I think all the other theories could only explain how we get some bounces bigger than others, as there is no extra energy in the equation to make a rolling ball come off a cushion faster than it went on to it.

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      • #33
        Originally Posted by moglet View Post

        It is the random occurrence of the apparently unrepeatable bigger bounces that is difficult to resolve unless you understand the nature of the ball surface. There is a definite correlation between unexplained ball to ball kicks and bigger cushion bounces.
        I'm not sure that there is a correlation between kicks ang big bounces, because in the clubs that I play in, we see kicks all the time (all kinds) but I've never seen rolling balls coming off cushions faster thna they go on, only variable bounces.

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        • #34
          Originally Posted by cantpotforshíte View Post
          I'm not sure that there is a correlation between kicks ang big bounces, because in the clubs that I play in, we see kicks all the time (all kinds) but I've never seen rolling balls coming off cushions faster thna they go on, only variable bounces.
          I don't believe I suggested that balls left the cushion faster than they went on, only that some bounces are bigger than expected.

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          • #35
            I'm with cantpot on this argument, there must be variable tensions in the rubber due to table fitters wrapping the cloth around the cushion rubber by hand and tacking it into place.
            Can't see how a person can set the same tension in the rubber along a twelve foot or six foot span purely by feel. I would say that when a ball contacts these tight spots in the cushion the stored energy is released and the cloth slackens a little so that it isn't repeatable.
            In the club the cloth on the cushions would relax after a week or so and the problem wouldn't exist, but in pro tournaments where tables are brand new and recently put together then it will be a recurring problem.
            I've never seen a big bounce in our club and I don't believe the balls are to blame either, play with both phenolics and super crystalate in our club and the only difference between the balls are kicks.
            Played last night with a set of supers and only one kick in two and half hours of play, with the phenolics it's a kick every fifth shot or so.

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            • #36
              Originally Posted by vmax4steve View Post
              I'm with cantpot on this argument, there must be variable tensions in the rubber due to table fitters wrapping the cloth around the cushion rubber by hand and tacking it into place.
              Can't see how a person can set the same tension in the rubber along a twelve foot or six foot span purely by feel. I would say that when a ball contacts these tight spots in the cushion the stored energy is released and the cloth slackens a little so that it isn't repeatable.
              Yes, it is tempting to look for less than perfect workmanship, however there is and has been used, test equipment to check championship cushions for linearity of both response and height. Yet the the abnormal bounces still occur.

              It really isn't rocket science or smoke and mirrors, but it can be explained, just basic school science.

              Perhaps you need to look a little deeper?

              It would be sensible to confine oneself to the simplest case of a plain rolling ball in a square contact with a cushion.

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              • #37
                Originally Posted by moglet View Post
                I don't believe I suggested that balls left the cushion faster than they went on, only that some bounces are bigger than expected.
                Fair enough.

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