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  • philip in china
    replied
    I don't understand why they would have put 1889 there. Is it a date? It seems strange.

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  • kevttt
    replied




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  • kevttt
    replied
    Interesting development.......

    I emailed Thurston and they think it might be a completely different table all together. hmmm..

    Looking at the picture your parents table we would suspect is what we call an Orme (a Manchester & Glasgow Billiard Co long since ceased trading) chestnut table. The two plates you refer to indicate that at least twice in its life it has had work carried out on the cushions - once by Taylor's and once by Thurston. Neither of these plates indicate the table manufacturer. The table is circa 1925 and sadly if our suspicion is correct that it is an Orme chestnut table then it is of little value. It will still weigh almost a tonne with a 5 section slate bed. so if you are to move it make sure that it is done carefully as the slate bed is quite difficult to handle unless you know what you are doing especially as you mention it is in a loft. Hope the above is sufficient information, Thurston Customer Service

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  • kevttt
    replied
    The circular roses on the legs can be pulled off and on the back of those roses the wood is engraved with 1889. However, that could mean something else?

    I also found the number 2436 engraved into the underside of the side frame.

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  • vmax
    replied
    Originally posted by kevttt View Post
    My parents have an antique table in their loft and due to a house renovation they are looking to get rid of it.
    Best of luck getting the slates out of the loft.

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  • DeanH
    replied
    Originally posted by kevttt View Post
    My parents have an antique table in their loft and due to a house renovation they are looking to get rid of it. I'm a little confused about it's origins because it has a John Taylor & Sons plate at one end and a Thurston & Co plate at the other. Is that normal? Did both of these companies manufacture tables? I believe the table was built in 1889.
    Both of these companies made tables.
    Sometimes a company would put their own plate on another make when, say, they changed the cushion-rails.
    How did you come to the date?

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  • kevttt
    replied
    My parents have an antique table in their loft and due to a house renovation they are looking to get rid of it. I'm a little confused about it's origins because it has a John Taylor & Sons plate at one end and a Thurston & Co plate at the other. Is that normal? Did both of these companies manufacture tables? I believe the table was built in 1889.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ricky2112
    replied
    Aye Geoff it’s just the one cushion. But that’s nothing to do with the table playing the way it does as all cushions act the same. I don’t think it’s anything to do with the way the table was put together either as the the table fitter built all 3 of our table when we moved to a new venue. It could be cheap rubbers though I have no idea what rubbers he used.
    We have three tables 2 of which are used by league players only and the other one can be used by any members. As the league is serious with prize money I am going to suggest we switch to the other 2 table at let the members play on the latest one we brought in. It is an ok table for potting even with its tighter pockets but is no good for a tactical game where getting out of snookers is crucial. I don’t think the club will pay to have anything major done to it. I am going to measure the height of the cushions in comparison to the other 2 tables.

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  • Geoff Large
    replied
    The only thing inside out cloth would do on a cushion is maybe make the ball skid , nap actually helps grip the ball ,

    you see this on worn down napped cushion cloth balls skidding and jumping , after a re-cover all is well again as the ball is gripping the nap .

    the only things that could make cushions bounce not good is

    OLD rubber , cracking shrinking going hard or too soft , it is funny that age on some rubbers make the rubber go hard and crack , other too soft and spongy .
    it is all down to chemical build of the rubber , and reaction to natural ozone in our air .
    read up on rubber and ozone affect

    http://www.applerubber.com/hot-topic...deterioration/

    low quality rubber

    rubber not glued to block and coming off in places

    rubber shrinking with age or bent over too far as too soft and not enough body in it

    blocks low or high

    rubber makes contact with ball too high not good bounce

    rubber makes contact below center of ball = catapults off the rubber and jumps .

    bolts not tight enough or wood body of cushion not good hard wood or blocks are coming away from cushion body , your slips will be nailed in if this is the case .

    only one sure way to rectify your table is to , look at the cushions see if the body is good , if so re-block with modern blocks and re-rubber .

    if it is just the one upside down covered cloth on one cushion , just have it re-covered nap face up .

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  • Ricky2112
    replied
    Haha Geoff about the spots for ball position. The Ivory spots near enough line up with our baulk line but are below the pink spot at the other end. They turn out to be quite insignificant anyway as far as playing goes. Struggling to get photos from my phone to my iPad to put pictures of our table, will work on it.
    So our cushions seem high with the centre of the white a touch above the bottom edge of the rubber. The rubbers have been replaced and a funny thing was spotted last night that none of us have noticed since the table was put in 6 weeks ago was that the cloth on the left hand cushion looking down the table has been replaced inside out lol furry side up nap to the inside.
    So doubles pull up short and escapes from snookers go wide its going to wreck our league. Geoff does that sound like a high cushion with firm rubbers? The rubbers feel quite deep also if you push your fingers into them.
    Love the knowledge you guys have and would love to table fit for a job. A few years back Geoff my mate and I built our own enbuild with your help, we still have it but is packed up on to a pallet just now as we give up the premises and have no where to put it. We made a great job for our first time ever covering a table and it played great. Quality cloth, we put on a hainsworth presision which probably helped us. Would have one of those cloths again, well recommend. Amazing fun stripping down a table then transporting it for rebuild and refurb.
    Fantastic knowledge from 100-uper and Geoff .
    Cheers Ricky

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  • Geoff Large
    replied
    thanks for the input Peter as you can see I am still learning even after 41 years in the billiards fitting trade .

    It certainly clears up why these spots do not align with baulk line at 29 inch from nose of cushion .

    I do get people saying the line dose not align with the ivory dots it is then I educate them that they are for the chalk cup positions and not the baulk line .

    I once had a boss who bought a firm I worked for say to a client that the dots are for ball position and working out angles , much like the diamond markers on american pool cushions
    I waited until he left the room before putting the client right on what they where for .

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    For a long time the baulk line was pretty much wherever you wanted to put it. I have reference of a match in 1861 where the line was drawn 27 inches from the cushion with the "D" at 19 inches radius. In 1872 another reference to the baulk line at 28½ inches, and in 1875, at 30 inches. There was very little consistency in the application of this measurement until the Billiard Association was formed in 1885 and set the baulk line at 29 inches. This encouraged standard practice, but even so, I would doubt that even this measurement was universally adopted for many years. It is quite probable that the cushion spots where used as a guide for much of the 19th century.

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  • Geoff Large
    replied
    Interesting read that about the baulk line dots Peter , on all the old billiard tables I have worked on the ivory or ebony spots on oak tables do not align up at 31 inch for baulk line they are just over that measurement
    and I think I know the reason , on early billiard tables they would play on larger blocks and more overhang of rubber , so the 29 inch from face of cushion rubber if used would make the spots just over 31 inch from end of slate which is what modern fitters use becuase they go on a 2 inch nominal over hang of cushions , but most modern tables have 1.7/8th overhang , this enables a ball down the cushion to pot more easy .
    and this is the reason when a baulk is marked at 31 inch that it does not align up with billiard cup spots inlaid on the side cushions .

    the ivory spots on all cushions show the position of chalk holding cup's under the cushions

    the ash tray theory was because many working men's clubs or smoky billiard halls had used them for that .
    I have also seen them used for discarded chewing gum .
    Last edited by Geoff Large; 16th January 2018, 05:47 PM.

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  • Ricky2112
    replied
    Wow, amazing amount of info guys, thank you very much
    Cheers Ricky

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    Originally posted by Ricky2112 View Post
    Just a quick thanks again for the info guys. Really interesting facts about table and plates. Was I right in what I said about the Ivory spots?
    Cheers Ricky.
    The spots in the centre of the cushion, which are usually ivory, originate from the earliest days of billiards, and defined the "stringing line" which came to define the baulk area and originally occupied about a quarter of the table. As there was no "D" at this time, there was no need to draw a line on the cloth, so the spots were all that was needed to position the cue ball. The players would also break from either end of the table, so the spot was put onto both side cushions, and presumably for ease of manufacture, they were appearing on all cushions by the mid-19th century. Around this time they also began to install chalk holders on tables, so although the baulk line was re-defined and players only used one end of the table, the spots were still useful to identify where the chalk could be located, and the top cushion spots could be used to position the billiard and pyramid spots. However, by the mid-20th century they had no real use at all, but like the chamfer on the butt of a billiard cue without a badge, the feature was retained as a matter of custom rather than practicality. It only really died out after ivory became a particularly rare resource in the 1930s.

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