Struggling After Coach Recommendations

[Cue crafty]

I've been struggling with my timing lately and started exaggerating my pause in solo play to get back on track, the trouble is when in normal play you start thinking about it... It's a killer.. you become like the bloke who can't dance and is counting 1-2-3 1-2-3 in his head to time the steps but he still looks a terrible dancer...

The hard part is not thinking about it in real play and just focus on the shot, your subconscious needs to take over to a large extent. When you realise you've made 30 odd and all you was thinking of was you shot selection and position you've cracked it!

[vmax]

Everyone pauses on the final backswing otherwise it would be impossible to deliver the cue forward without an incredible jerk so forget about the pause during the pause and just focus on making sure you see the contact point of the object ball because that's what you should be doing during this pause. The length of the pause determines the time that this takes, so it could be a long or short pause, therefore putting in a deliberate long pause could be ballsing up your natural eye movements.

Bloody coaches, teaching everyone to play the same way as if there is only one way is totally wrong, A coach should focus on obvious errors only, like movement and stance and alignment to the line of aim and never muck about with someones natural cue action that works great when the obvious errors aren't present.

[John Flaf]

Just another thing to think of to screw your game up, If you want to follow the advice you were given Dougie, do it on the ironing table not the snooker table.

[vmax]

No disrespect to some people on here but if the OP has decided to seek help from a qualified coach then it makes no sense not to follow that advice. The coach would have assessed his game and come up with a plan . What’s with all the negative comments about coaching .
I congratulate the OP for seeking advice on how to improve his game from a professional coach and not just trying to seek advice from a forum and people who have never seen him play and aren’t qualified or at the least play to a high level .

OP says it's not working, and as for being qualified, who's to say what qualified means because if that's just doing a course and getting a certificate then it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Too many so called coaches have a generic formula of cue action that comes from the course they have taken but it surely can't apply to everyone as each person is different, especially when it comes to eye movement and what one is looking at during the different stages of shot making.
There are good coaches no doubt, but there are also coaches who are like chiropractors and want another appointment at twenty quid an hour or more for as long as possible and will milk you for as long as they can.

[Starsky]

OP says it's not working, and as for being qualified, who's to say what qualified means because if that's just doing a course and getting a certificate then it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Too many so called coaches have a generic formula of cue action that comes from the course they have taken but it surely can't apply to everyone as each person is different, especially when it comes to eye movement and what one is looking at during the different stages of shot making.
There are good coaches no doubt, but there are also coaches who are like chiropractors and want another appointment at twenty quid an hour or more for as long as possible and will milk you for as long as they can.

I deleted the comment shortly after posting as i expected a reply like yours and I can’t be bothered to get into a discussion on the subject.
I avoid negative stuff these days which included me taking a less active role in this forum ( lucky for you guys I know ) as I felt some comments and posts where not to my taste.

Good luck to the OP in his development .

All the best .

[vmax]

I deleted the comment shortly after posting as i expected a reply like yours and I can’t be bothered to get into a discussion on the subject.
I avoid negative stuff these days which included me taking a less active role in this forum ( lucky for you guys I know ) as I felt some comments and posts where not to my taste.

Good luck to the OP in his development .

All the best .

Starsky, no one's being negative, it's a postive discussion if it helps someone, and it well might.

OP says that his highest break is 69, I would assume that all went rather well during that break until an inconsistant flaw emerged. His lesson with this coach was two hours and during this time his coach noticed two things he needed to change, hold the cue further up the butt and put in a pause at the end of the delivery stroke, we must therefore assume that everything else with his game, according to this coach, was hunky dory.

I would like to ask the OP,
did the coach check his eye movements and if so did he determine that he was looking where he should ?
did the coach check the alignment of the cue to the line of aim and if so did he suggest any changes ?
did the coach tell him what he was doing wrong and why these changes would rectify the problem/s ?

[mikee]

Been through all the lessons myself with golf ,and while they help people that have never hit a ball before ,just to get started ,I’ve not met many people that have played the game for years drop their handicap after a series of lessons ,in fact most get worse . Pretty much all the people I know that play in single figures are the ones that play 3 times a week at least ,and that is the only way to get better .In snooker what I do when my game goes tits up is spend time knocking in long balls with stun at various places on the table ,it will focus you to hit the middle of the ball ,concentrate you more and give instant feed back when you miss ,playing these shots will give you your natural cueing ,feathers and pause .I agree with Vmax more on this ,changing peoples cueing is a disaster most times ,it’s also something you don’t want to be thinking about too much .Regarding high breaks around the 70 mark that never get to making a century is more to do with the lack of reds left in the break when position becomes more critical ,practice with just 5 reds on the table and the colours and try at least to clear all the reds with colours ,this will sharpen up positional play quite a bit ,you will then have more chance of making a ton .Most of the pro’s that have coaches are there for minor tweaks and confidence ,these guys are fantastic players anyway,and it really is a different ball game for them .

[matthias]

please have a look,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BfHCP-mmks

think this also sounds like good advice from john flaf: do it on the ironing table not the snooker table

[Mark187187]

When I was at music college, tutors had a saying something along the lines of: doing something wrong (technique wise) for 7 days takes 70 days to undo and correct. My wife is a music teacher and says something similar about pupils with bad habits. Getting a coach/teacher isn't a quick fix, especially if you've got bad habits. Definitely way too soon to be getting disheartened, will take months for you to see any significant improvements and for different techniques to become second nature.

[MrRottweiler]

When I was at music college, tutors had a saying something along the lines of: doing something wrong (technique wise) for 7 days takes 70 days to undo and correct. My wife is a music teacher and says something similar about pupils with bad habits. Getting a coach/teacher isn't a quick fix, especially if you've got bad habits. Definitely way too soon to be getting disheartened, will take months for you to see any significant improvements and for different techniques to become second nature.

I learnt music notation in lower school but made the mistake of using acronyms, which most people do at that age, and it helped me read music but at a very slow pace and could never sight read. Later in life when I became hooked on classical music and started learning piano sonatas I realised all I could think of when I saw a G was 'Good' or a B was 'Boy' or an F was 'Fruit'.

Instead of seeing the note I was thinking of the associated word I had used as a child to memorise the note and that made it very slow to learn sheet music. With the help of Music Theory For Dummies and learning more about time and key signatures I started to learn to eliminate notes making reading the music easier but it was still slow and laborious. Acronyms are a common learning technique but if only I had drilled that early learning out of me back then I would be much better at sight reading. I admire anyone who can play any music placed in front of them and play it perfectly. I'm sure professional musicians will be reading the manuscript 'a few shots ahead' and I can only dream of being able to do that.

[itsnoteasy]

Did you adjust ?.

I've just got the tape measure out - and discovered i've been holding the cue about 6-6.5 inches before, rather than the 3-4 he recommended.

Now put a bit of tape at 3" - hopefully this will help.

Cheers,
Dougie.

I'm not very sure what you mean. I'm not very interested in how much cue is sticking out behind your grip hand, as long as it's not too excessive. I would be more interested in what's stinking out in front of your bridge. If he thought that wasn't enough, then fair enough, if he has this hard and fast rule of 3-4 inches but that makes your bridge length above 12 inches, nah not for me. As I say I don't know why he's made you adjust but I would hazard a guess it's the former.

[DougieL]

I'm not very sure what you mean. I'm not very interested in how much cue is sticking out behind your grip hand, as long as it's not too excessive. I would be more interested in what's stinking out in front of your bridge. If he thought that wasn't enough, then fair enough, if he has this hard and fast rule of 3-4 inches but that makes your bridge length above 12 inches, nah not for me. As I say I don't know why he's made you adjust but I would hazard a guess it's the former.

I was holding the cue to far back which was causing me to jerk my shoulder on some shots. no change to bridge distance at all.

So, instead of holding the cue right at the butt, I will now be 3 inches up the cue.

Cheers,
Dougie.

[itsnoteasy]

I was holding the cue to far back which was causing me to jerk my shoulder on some shots. no change to bridge distance at all.

So, instead of holding the cue right at the butt, I will now be 3 inches up the cue.

Cheers,
Dougie.

Ah! Sorry, I've misunderstood, yep get you now. That's fair enough. I thought you were holding it six and a half inches up and he had moved your whole set up two or three inches back , making your bridge longer.

[DougieL]

Thanks all for the replies on this thread. Been really helpful.

With regards to coaching qualifications etc, I'm not sure about certificates in this regard but the guy who was coaching me was the first Scot to make the Crucible and has given a few of the top stars a defeat in his day. (now 75).

Was so glad I met up with him. Just need to get the head down and practice. Great tips from you all !.

Thanks,
Dougie.

[DougieL]

Quick follow up to this. Been persevering with the 'pause' and starting to get it together now, thanks to some of the tips on this thread.

Managed a 49 break at my local club today, highest for a while - so moving in the right direction.

Thanks again all.

Cheers,
Dougie.