Particular type of shot

[DandyA]

Hi Dandy how've you been? How's your game?

I'm good RR ... I don't know if you may remember, but I'm a big Steve Davis fan if only cos I'm another 1957 baby ... he's trying to keep his world ranking less than his age (55) ... I'm trying to get my high break up to my age ... so me and him have a lot in common

but it's really good to see you and RGC back on the forum ... all those crazy chats we used to have ... there were about 6 or more of us who used to regularly rabbit on the chat thingy in the wee small hours ... who were the others? I'm so old I've got that forgetfulness disease (can't remember what it's called) but they were fun

there were some girls too ... maybe April Madness and Ja ... happy days

[RocketRoy1983]

hi RR, nice to see you on the forum again

Hi Dandy how've you been? How's your game?

[DandyA]

Wow can't believe my thread is still going strong 3 and a half years later!! Thanks to Terry for continuing the good work. How's everyone doing?

hi RR, nice to see you on the forum again

[RocketRoy1983]

Wow can't believe my thread is still going strong 3 and a half years later!! Thanks to Terry for continuing the good work. How's everyone doing?

[nrage]

jmo:

As you can see from the long and detailed response from nrage is the reason most coaches would recommend a beginning player just learning how to play should not use any side at all and also remember side spin is a consideration on any shot ONLY when the cueball will hit a cushion. It has virtually no effect (outside of aiming differently) on a straight pot where no cushion is involved.

Terry

All good points I completely neglected to mention!

I avoid using side for anything except the break off shot, safety shots where I cannot possibly miss the object ball and just want to widen the angle off the cushion to get closer to baulk and very occasionally on pots where the object ball is practically already in the pocket. A better player would use some side spin in and around the black, if there was no better way to achieve position (using stun, screw and top spin).

A beginner should work on potting, and learning to control the pace of the white for position, adding top spin and stun and finally screw shots once they have more control.

[Terry Davidson]

jmo:

As you can see from the long and detailed response from nrage is the reason most coaches would recommend a beginning player just learning how to play should not use any side at all and also remember side spin is a consideration on any shot ONLY when the cueball will hit a cushion. It has virtually no effect (outside of aiming differently) on a straight pot where no cushion is involved.

Terry

[nrage]

Hello, I am new to snooker and am working on my potting skills. I have a question about that: how on earth do you pot the object ball if you simultaneously want to put some kind of a screw on the white to get to the next ball?? For example when putting side on the ball. hen I do that, I miss the pocket by miles!

When you strike with side 2 things happen, the ball will deflect/take a different line, and it will curve slightly back. To play with side you need to learn how much your cue deflects and how much the ball, cloth and pace of the shot affects the curve back. For a short range pot with side you can ignore the curve effect, but you have to judge the deflection effect.

There are 2 technique for playing with side. The standard snooker technique keeps the cue parallel to the line of aim, but pool players often cue across the line of aim.

For example, imagine a straight pot, blue to the center pocket. To play with left hand side in the snooker fashion you would move the whole cue left, keeping it parallel to the original line of aim (through center of white, blue, and pocket). To play in the pool fashion you would move the butt of the cue right, moving the tip left, and cueing across the line of aim from right to left.

There are pro's and con's of each method and players of either game may use either technique, I am just labelling them as I think is most common

Using the snooker method, when you strike the white (cueing straight ahead parallel to the line of aim through white, blue and pocket) the white will skew/squirt/deflect to the right, off the line of aim, then over distance/time it will curve back to the left eventually coming back to the line of aim, and then passing over it and ending up to the left of it.

So, to play with side you need to adjust the original line of aim to account for the effects.

If it's a short range shot then you only have to take into account the deflection, and deflection is fairly constant (varies with power and amount of side, but only a little) and depends on your cue end mass (mostly). So, once you get used to your own cue's deflection, you can adjust the original line of aim to account for it, then you apply the side in the snooker fashion placing it parallel to the adjusted line of aim and you should pot the ball.

Once you practice it enough it will become second nature.

For a longer range shot you need to account for both deflection and curve, the curve effect will depend on the angle of the cue - flatter striking causes less curve, it will depend on the power - higher power means later curve, and it will depend on the cloth - thicker cloth means more curve. This effect is much harder to account for, and is why people tend to use side on shorter range shots (IMO). You would adjust for the deflection, then depending on distance, power and cloth you would adjust back by some amount.

Again, lots of practice, and using the same table/cloth is recommended.

Best of luck.

[Jmoinen]

Hello, I am new to snooker and am working on my potting skills. I have a question about that: how on earth do you pot the object ball if you simultaneously want to put some kind of a screw on the white to get to the next ball?? For example when putting side on the ball. hen I do that, I miss the pocket by miles!

[Particle Physics]

Played snooker last night for the 1st time since I broke my right Humerous bone ( bone between elbow/shoulder ) on Easter Monday 2012, I have compleatly lost my cueing action, pots 3/6 inch wide of pockets, felt like I was playing for the 1st time ever. Even worse when you know what to do, but your arm won't let you lol. Can anyone help, or have been in a similar predicament to myself ?

Was there nerve damage, or just a weakened muscle due to a cast, or both? I'm assuming the bone fully repaired and there is no pain from the fracture now? If it's a weakened muscle (the body simply canabalises or turns unused muscle into fat) then you need to do some exercises, and of course, snooker is a muscle exercise, but I mean some light weights to rebuild the muscle groups, biceps and triceps. You won't have been using the forearm much either, so some weights to strengthen these muscles would also be useful. As Terry says, your physio should advise you what to do, though I have found this 'profession' to be somewhat lacklustre in the UK.

The brain sends electrical signals to the muscles. This communication system will improve with use. It really depends on how much damage you did, and what type of damage, w.r.t. getting your old cueing arm back to full use.

[Terry Davidson]

back2rehab:

My advice would be to get your doctor to refer you back to the physiotherapist. When you go to the physio take your cue with you and show the physio what you're trying to do. He/she should check out your range of motion and do an assessment to see if you are inducing any pain on the backswing or delivery. The physio may give you some exercises to do.

I assume your arm was in a cast for awhile and this would have caused the shoulder muscle to degrade somewhat over time and you need to get the shoulder muscle back to normal.

This also hints at you getting your upper arm and shoulder muscle involved in the delivery of the cue a bit too early in the delivery and you should try using JUST the elbow although the muscle which drives the cue forward is actually the inside upper arm muscle (not sure of the name, but the one body builders flex) and this muscle has to have a chance to get back to normal before you can expect a return to form.

If you get an exercise routine from the physio, be sure you follow the instructions faithfully as in most cases like this it will be some kind of flexing exercise with a weight and probably to be repeated 3 times a day or so.

Also, as bricktip has said, your muscle will require time to heal and recover and there's really no way to speed that process up. It will take exercise, patience and time.

Do NOT go to a chiropractor as this is not really their field of expertise.

Terry

[bricktip]

I think you need to mentally allow yourself time to get your game back. Don't expect to be there in a few days, just go in with the attitude that it's a process and you expect to start playing properly after say 4 weeks, otherwise you'll just get frustrated which won't help.

[Back2Rehab]

Played snooker last night for the 1st time since I broke my right Humerous bone ( bone between elbow/shoulder ) on Easter Monday 2012, I have compleatly lost my cueing action, pots 3/6 inch wide of pockets, felt like I was playing for the 1st time ever. Even worse when you know what to do, but your arm won't let you lol. Can anyone help, or have been in a similar predicament to myself ?

[saddler79]

Side spin with a slightly elevated cue will cause the white to swerve on the cloth. There is also some evidence that side spin can be transmitted (tho if so, it's so minute as to make very little/no difference). Also, I think some people use side/squirt and swerve more than strictly necessary, but do so because they have learned to play that way.

Transmitted spin is no myth. Try a straight shot using top and side and just top. Definite comparative deviation in the cueball.

For me using side effectively is the hardest aspect of the game. The white throws straight off the cue, then swerves if there is enough distance to object ball and then transmits to the object ball. These 3 factors have to be taken account of in every shot with side. Its what makes the pros so good to watch!

[Snookerfan123]

has anyone got any tips on long potts when the cue ball is on the cushion and break building

[FerruleFox]

Side spin with a slightly elevated cue will cause the white to swerve on the cloth. There is also some evidence that side spin can be transmitted (tho if so, it's so minute as to make very little/no difference). Also, I think some people use side/squirt and swerve more than strictly necessary, but do so because they have learned to play that way.

You can definitely throw a ball with side.

Set up a straight red, then use a colour to slightly block the potting angle. Don't leave a gap between the balls (so that you could swerve the white to the potting angle) ... you will still be able to pot the red using extreme side.

Not an easy shot but very makeable with practice.