Terry's Technique Video

[itsnoteasy]

Sidd, I feel you have the wrong idea about snooker altogether, it's surprising you have a decent high break, with all the chopping and changing. The very very first rule in snooker(this is only my opinion )is surely RELAX, nothing can be achieved without this, aiming ,grip stance ,eye movement, all doesn't matter if you are uncomfortable and tension filled, which you must be if you have pain across the shoulders, you can never deliver a straight cue consistently all tensed up, all things told to you should come with this word attached to the end, so shoulder down, but relaxed. Grip firm, but relaxed.boxer stance ,but relaxed , stay still, eyes locked while staying relaxed, cue through the cue ball, stay relaxed, you get the drift.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's very frustrating, I don't know how Terry puts up with it lol.(from all of us)

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

I couldn't find it either in Frank's book although he did say on his website coaching to 'firm up the left side of the body' as one of his points but his coaching tips are no longer available on the website. Firming up the left side of the body I take to mean getting the bridge arm on the table with the shoulder down as low as possible and the bridge forearm and bridge solidly on the table.

It's definitely in the Davis book and was also taught by Jack Karnham on the B&SCC coaching course. I teach keeping the bridge shoulder down as low as comfortably possible in order to stabilize the right shoulder socket and keep it out of the backswing and delivery as much as possible.

Terry

[humperdingle]

You two should probably have each other on 'ignore'

[j6uk]

I have just combed through Frank's book on chapters 2.grip, 3.bridge and 6.bridge arm and cue arm and I cant find this unfortunate term you say 'brace the shoulder' anywhere.
Are you sure?

Next time I look at Frank's book I'll see if I can find it. I think it's near the front somewhere as he talks about his elbow starting to sag out a bit and felt it wasn't bothering his accuracy at all.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

I can't remember if both Nic and Terry emphasized it at all but they both did say the shoulder should be locked in place and not move during the delivery which is quite comfortably achieve by getting the bridge armpit down and out.

However, in older guys like myself it sometimes is difficult as I am unable to completely hide my grip shoulder due to a lack of flexibility in the spine. Younger players can easily achieve it but someone like Sidd who is a little older and somewhat overweight could have a hard time locking the shoulder socket in space.

It's exactly the same as what a golf pro will tell a student, which is to keep the back of the lower neck locked in space and pivot the body around that point. In fact you could say exactly the same regarding snooker, just keep the back of the neck still in space.

Next time I look at Frank's book I'll see if I can find it. I think it's near the front somewhere as he talks about his elbow starting to sag out a bit and felt it wasn't bothering his accuracy at all.

Terry

[j6uk]

Ive not read Joe's book but I have looked through Frank Callan's. Do you remember on what page Frank mentions 'brace the shoulder'?
Oh and this is what was told to you on your masters course?

j6uk:

Yes. It actually started with Joe Davis in his first instructional book who used the words 'brace the shoulder'. It also appears in Frank Callan's book too.


Terry

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

Yes. It actually started with Joe Davis in his first instructional book who used the words 'brace the shoulder'. It also appears in Frank Callan's book too.

It's achieved by thrusting the bridge arm shoulder out as far into the table as you (comfortably) can (in other words twisting the spine so the shoulders line up a bit more along the line of the shot but don't try this at home kids because it's not so severe you get both shoulders on the line of aim) and this in turn will lock the grip arm shoulder up and in behind the head. Look at a straight-on photo of any of the top pros and you will see the grip arm shoulder is almost all hidden behind the head.

Joe advocated the straight and locked bridge arm, thrusting it out as far as you can however he wasn't all that tall and the modern players bend the bridge arm slightly but still push it out as far as they comfortably can. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but all the top pros have their grip arm shoulder hidden behind the head.

If you do thrust the bridge arm out straight and locked most players will find that it stabilizes their other shoulder and seems to make the pivoting motion of the elbow much easier to achieve. However, it wouldn't cause a strain like Sidd says he has developed so I'm pretty sure he over did it by a lot. That was a common thing that happened when Joe published his first book and he talks about it in his second book where he brings in the idea of not getting twisted up and over strained when trying to copy him, which a lot of players of that day were complaining about to him.

I've told Sidd over and over and over again to just pick a set-up and technique he feels comfortable with and then stick with it and just practice until he doesn't have to think about technique at all as he will never, ever improve if he keeps fine-tuning his technique. (See the career of Nick Faldo, who started fine-tuning his technique even though he was on top of the money list and rankings.)

Also, what is the 'dreaded com***er'? The dreaded computer?

Terry

[j6uk]

Sidd stop!! Put your cue away. If I were you I'd see a sports Dr about this, take a rest and sort it. If anything, swimming with your boy after work..
Then in six weeks or so I'd look for my nearest good coach or go to a club were the best players play and stay away from the dreaded com***er.

j6uk:

Sidd:

The shoulder socket should stay still but shouldn't be forced up and in so high that you induce strain and that appears to be what you've actually done. In other words you OVER DID it. Now...close your eyes and get into the address position and adjust your shoulder until it is in the first case - COMFORTABLE - and is also stable so the shoulder socket itself doesn't move.

Terry

[j6uk]

Is that what they teach when becoming a Master Coach 'lock the shoulder'?

j6uk:

It was me who told him to lock his shoulder however because Sidd is a type to take everything right to heart I believe he was forcing the shoulder to lock and as such forgot the most important point I told him, which is to ensure everything is COMFORTABLE.

Sidd:

The shoulder socket should stay still but shouldn't be forced up and in so high that you induce strain and that appears to be what you've actually done. In other words you OVER DID it. Now...close your eyes and get into the address position and adjust your shoulder until it is in the first case - COMFORTABLE - and is also stable so the shoulder socket itself doesn't move.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

It was me who told him to lock his shoulder however because Sidd is a type to take everything right to heart I believe he was forcing the shoulder to lock and as such forgot the most important point I told him, which is to ensure everything is COMFORTABLE.

Sidd:

The shoulder socket should stay still but shouldn't be forced up and in so high that you induce strain and that appears to be what you've actually done. In other words you OVER DID it. Now...close your eyes and get into the address position and adjust your shoulder until it is in the first case - COMFORTABLE - and is also stable so the shoulder socket itself doesn't move.

Terry

[j6uk]

This is worrying, who told you to lock your shoulder?

If i stop worrying about these things and only focus on BOB thing would improve but then what to do now? i have practiced locking my shoulder to eliminate elbow drop to a point that it has started to hurt a little and my bridge arm tendinitis is back again ... I have pain in both shoulders now !!! I plan to go odwn tonight and only focus on BOB and nothing else but this newly introduced shoulder lock I know I just know I will do it again and hence start tinkering again.. It has happened so many times that I cant stop myself or at least dont know how to ?

Sidd.

[vmax4steve]

Dear Steve,

I guess you are right. Have I not been here, at this very stage, a few months ago ? I am back to square one again. Even though you told me that this is what I have been doing on this forum since the past two years, yet again, I did it again ! I have no idea what is wrong with me and why I cant stop tinkering whilst at the table.

You have OCD Sidd, it forces you to set yourself rituals that you must abide by because there is a subconscious belief in you that these rituals have a real effect on your life.

Forget the preparation ritual that you go through before going to the club and playing.

I bet you did this once and played great and somehow it leaked into your subconscious that it was this that had an effect on your performance. It didn't, you simply did the basics that night and it all came together, nothing to do with perfume.

Go down there smelling of sweat and in dirty clothes (figuratively speaking) , in other words free your mind of the childish beliefs that started this OCD after the loss of your sister. Nothing that you did then was the reason for her leaving this world, and no rituals you set yourself now have any effect on any outcome in your life.
This is the real base of OCD behaviour, the setting up of rituals that you subconsciously believe will have an effect on your luck, health and happiness in all things. There is no such thing as magic, no such thing as lucky charms and no such thing as god.

We live in a natural world and any belief in the supernatural is simply an expression of the natural fear of knowing we are not entirely in control of our lives, and the basic instincts of dominance and submission that we inherited from our ape ancestors makes a high percentage of humans submissive to leaders and invent gods for our leaders to submit to.

There is nothing that you can do about your past and nothing that you can do to absolutely control your future. Some things are out of your hands mate, sh*t happens, accept it.

I plan to go odwn tonight and only focus on BOB and nothing else but this newly introduced shoulder lock I know I just know I will do it again and hence start tinkering again.. It has happened so many times that I cant stop myself or at least dont know how to ?

Sidd.

Forget everything and start again, pick up your cue as if for the first time, hold it like you would a hammer, look at your target (BOB) before you get down into stance, and as you get down into your stance. Forget about placing your feet, simply let your eyes guide you into position. Forget about the backswing and follow through, just look at BOB and play the stroke without thinking, just like you used to.

Forget that forced follow through to the chest. Ditch it completely, get rid of it for good and simply focus on BOB. Focussing on BOB on the strike will give you a natural follow through as the eyes are looking beyond the cue ball. You don't need to force one so don't think about not having one, you will have one if you look at BOB on the strike, it only needs to go through the cue ball, not all the way to the chest or any other fixed point.

Most importantly, if you play badly at first or at any time DO NOT BRING ANY OF YOUR RITUALS BACK INOT YOUR CUE ACTION, see them for what they are, rituals that do not have any positve effects on your game except to fill your mind with too much thought, which is a negative when playing snooker.

[itsnoteasy]

Can't argue with that Terry, the less moving parts, the less can go wrong, and even if it does, the less to fix.

[Terry Davidson]

itsnoteasy:

My wife isn't here right now (Physio) and I don't know the names of the muscles, but you contract the muscle on the top of the UPPER arm to backswing and then contract the muscle on the bottom of the UPPER arm to deliver. So you're technically correct in that the muscles you use to move the cue are on the upper arm however the forearm (bone) is the fulcrum being used and that is from the elbow joint which should act as a pivot and should remain as still as possible in space (no sideways or up/down movement).

Keeping the elbow still in space is not possible when using a longer backswing and a powerful delivery but if you think about it, the only way you can move the elbow joint around is using the large muscle on the outside of the shoulder joint. The more you use this shoulder muscle the more movement you have to precisely coordinate in order to return the cue to the exact address position at the time of strike.

I advocate using the least number of muscles in the cue action (KISS principle) and I point at Steve Davis' technique when he was in his prime as his elbow hardly moved at all on any shot, no matter how powerful. Note that Steve managed to compete into his 50's and is still competing not too badly and I believe that is because he has never had to do a lot of coordinating in his cue action.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

Is it really possible to play from the elbow down?, my understanding of how we work is its the bicep and triceps that move our forearm up and down(or back and forward), so it's actually the top of the arm that moves the cue, the muscles in the forearm are for grip. I understand this is said to keep everything as relaxed as possible but is it technically true?
Sorry I'm bored, I can't get out to play today