What do people think of Roy Chisholm's Snooker Secrets?

[chrisg]

Which has helped more? A few months using Nic Barrows aim frame or a couple of weeks using Roys book?

It's interesting you say that, Nic's Aim Frame is useful for learning angles, but I find Roy's explanation on contact points on Object ball (OB) easier to implement practically.

The only real criticism I have of the Aim Frame is this: When you remove the AIM BALL, I don't quite understand what you are supposed to be looking at after? I get the fact you aim at the aim ball FULL BALL, and then the object ball takes care of itself, but when you remove the AIM BALL, what are you supposed to be looking at? Are you remembering where you placed the AIM BALL on particular shots? The Aim Frame is good for learning cueing full ball and addressing cue ball...

RE: CHISHOLM'S book has helped me more in last two weeks on focusing my mind on the object ball and NOT at the pocket, something I was fixated on beforehand.

[itsnoteasy]

Looks to me like it's coming from right to left . So the centre of his body is online with the shot as normal and he walks into the shot as normal . He puts the cue down keeping the hand on his hip which means the butt is off line to right but tip is at centre white . The then gets down and as he twists his hips the hand holding the butt pulls across with the hips To be online .

The only difference is see from a normal walk in is that most players hold the cue across the body while walking in and swing it onto the line as they are dropping down

Just how it looks to me

Oh well if you think bringing your cue in from the side is a good thing good luck to you. This is one of the worst game wrecking threads I have ever read on here. Again if you can't hit centre you can't hit off centre either so what's the point.

[chrisg]

Oh well if you think bringing your cue in from the side is a good thing good luck to you. This is one of the worst game wrecking threads I have ever read on here. Again if you can't hit centre you can't hit off centre either so what's the point.

Game-wrecking? As I keep saying before, the textbook does not work for everyone....There is no one size fits all in snooker - as in other sports. Just because it's unorthodox or a little bit off textbook doesn't mean it's wrong (or right) merely what suits the individual!

I made a 51 using it last week so I don't see why people are so against it.

Many players are using side on the cue ball without knowing it anyway! They think they are hitting DEAD CENTRE, but they are not! It would be interesting to take 100 people and get them to get down and cue and count how many of them address the white dead centre and at first glance I bet it would look like it, but if you took closer look, most wouldn't...Only MHO though....

As I said before, my coach said he knows a few pros who hit with a trace of side on pots....

[itsnoteasy]

Game-wrecking? As I keep saying before, the textbook does not work for everyone....There is no one size fits all in snooker - as in other sports. Just because it's unorthodox or a little bit off textbook doesn't mean it's wrong (or right) merely what suits the individual!

I made a 51 using it last week so I don't see why people are so against it.

Many players are using side on the cue ball without knowing it anyway! They think they are hitting DEAD CENTRE, but they are not! It would be interesting to take 100 people and get them to get down and cue and count how many of them address the white dead centre and at first glance I bet it would look like it, but if you took closer look, most wouldn't...Only MHO though....

As I said before, my coach said he knows a few pros who hit with a trace of side on pots....

Just buy a TUCA or make your own, one hour a day for a month and you will hit centre most of the time.

[markz]

I'm not sure if you've read the book, or seen the video, but the harder you hit the ball, the wider it goes, so therefore, it's advisable not to hit the ball too hard as you will miss.

In terms of side, you need to aim thicker on OB to allow to compensate for the throw on shots with extreme side...But the side we are talking about on "normal" pots is only a trace, half a tip, so makes very little difference....I know cos I have been testing it out for last two weeks...

So the use of traces of side is to help the pot? Most the time I'd imagine hitting a shot like that isn't going to be helpful to getting position on the next ball.

[blahblah01]

Well, I gave it a go and it confused the wotsits out of my lil head with the off-straight pots. Half Ball and less were a bit better than usual though.

[markz]

Well, I gave it a go and it confused the wotsits out of my lil head with the off-straight pots. Half Ball and less were a bit better than usual though.

So is the idea to make the pot easier and not worry about playing a positional shot?

[blahblah01]

So is the idea to make the pot easier and not worry about playing a positional shot?

I think the half a tip of side is to help with potting, but I was getting so much throw on the OB. I drew the line at aiming outside the pocket as I didn't really fancy turning my Snooker into something akin to Bowls....

It seems that the OP has quite serious aiming problems, which might explain the appeal with the off straight stuff: that said the less than half ball stuff was a bit better (less bad).

re Positioning: I didn't get beyond over-cutting loads tbh.

[markz]

I think the half a tip of side is to help with potting, but I was getting so much throw on the OB. I drew the line at aiming outside the pocket as I didn't really fancy turning my Snooker into something akin to Bowls....

It seems that the OP has quite serious aiming problems, which might explain the appeal with the off straight stuff: that said the less than half ball stuff was a bit better (less bad).

re Positioning: I didn't get beyond over-cutting loads tbh.

Cheers, sounds like learning something that further on down the line you will have to forget and start learning something new to add positional play and progress.

[blahblah01]

Cheers, sounds like learning something that further on down the line you will have to forget and start learning something new to add positional play and progress.

I didn't notice much affect re positioning tbh, but off straight potting was a nightmare for me...............

[Ramon]

Just watched the video on walking Into the shot ....I might just be thick but it looks to me like he is teaching a txt book method but describing it differently .

He says put cue on hip and stand behind shot so you can see the angle ....walk onto shot and the cue will be off line (but body will be online ) . As you get down the hips move and cue goes online .

Is this not just the way we are all taught ? ....i.e. Feet together right foot on line of shot before or during walk in (this means your hip is to the right of the shot , just like in Roy's video ) as you get down place your cue on the potting line .

The only difference I see is that he put the cue down at and angle and then straightens it ...whilst most players ,straighten it on the way down .

Yep . that's just about what he's doing .

I found one of his videos.
Went today to visit a m8 of mine (he has his own table) and we did give this a try.

Basically what he does: approach the shot offline, once down on the shot putting the cue online.
However, due to this offline approach, using abit of side needed in order to
compensate. usually striking the CB in sweet spot should do it.

In other words what he does is: Using helping side with an different approach comperd to text book one .

Take a look at the angle between CB and Blue ball in this video.
What would you say? 15 degree ?
What if this angle was 45 dge ?
The question is how you gonna judge an offline angle when you're dealing with an wider angle shot?
bcuz, somehow you gonna have to judge the offline angle otherwise you do'nt know how to approach the shot.
I have'nt read his book , though,. perhaps more info in his book ?? who knows !!

as far as I'm concerned, if someone feels comfortable this way and this can improve his game,
Then i would say stick with it.

Edit: hav'nt read all the posts in this thread ( in case already mentioned ) .

[Catch 22]

Oh well if you think bringing your cue in from the side is a good thing good luck to you. This is one of the worst game wrecking threads I have ever read on here. Again if you can't hit centre you can't hit off centre either so what's the point.

I haven't tried this technique myself. I Line up and walk into the shot the traditional way .

I was just stating what I thought he was doing,based on the video

[chrisg]

Yep . that's just about what he's doing .

I found one of his videos.
Went today to visit a m8 of mine (he has his own table) and we did give this a try.

Basically what he does: approach the shot offline, once down on the shot putting the cue online.
However, due to this offline approach, using abit of side needed in order to
compensate. usually striking the CB in sweet spot should do it.

In other words what he does is: Using helping side with an different approach comperd to text book one .

Take a look at the angle between CB and Blue ball in this video.
What would you say? 15 degree ?
What if this angle was 45 dge ?
The question is how you gonna judge an offline angle when you're dealing with an wider angle shot?
bcuz, somehow you gonna have to judge the offline angle otherwise you do'nt know how to approach the shot.
I have'nt read his book , though,. perhaps more info in his book ?? who knows !!

as far as I'm concerned, if someone feels comfortable this way and this can improve his game,
Then i would say stick with it.

Edit: hav'nt read all the posts in this thread ( in case already mentioned ) .

You've hit the nail on the head. If it feels comfortable - and it does for me, then stick with it! The traditional walk in for me does not feel comfortable! I have coordination issues with the traditional walk in!

[vmax4steve]

Mr.Chisolm is an old bloke and obviously learned to play with the old heavy crystalate balls, his method is one that many used back in the 50's and 60's when screw was a lot harder and run through with side was the way to go.
A team mate of mine (now 74 years old and highest break of 98) uses this method and sincerely believes that you make the angle according to how much side you put on it. He can cut in anything using this method but comes unstuck when dead straight as there is no angle to make and he simply can't cue centre of the cue ball.

I've mentioned many times before that to play with side you aim thicker and the actual contact is thinner, so aiming outside the pocket is a must at times, other times it's one jaw or the other, and once you get used to your cues deflection of the cue ball it isn't as hard as some people make out.

I heard Stephen Hendry in commentary, when a player was playing the yellow from the green side of the table to split the reds, say that he was aiming the yellow to hit the side cushion about three inches before the pocket with left hand side on the cue ball. Now how can a 7 time world champion be wrong about such a fundamental aspect of the game while all the centre ball coaches are saying don't use side until you can make a 50+ break.

[vmax4steve]

no professional or coach would tell you to aim outside of the pocket. it doesn't make sense.

If they knew about side then they would, and if they don't then walk away as they don't know what they're talking about. The harder you hit a shot with side then the more the cue ball deflects, the harder a reverse side screw shot is played the more the cue ball swerves across the cloth and when these effects are compensated for aiming outside the pocket sometimes is a must.

I've found that trace amounts of side are simply not worth it, half a tip from centre ball does nothing significant and you might as well play centre ball, a full tip and your playing with side and then you'll see the difference and will need to compensate your aiming.

Too much coaching will stunt your growth.