sighting (vision centre) dominant eye problem

[snooker beast]

hello wonderful people

i have a problem with my sighting and its really hard to fix, indeed how to fix!

info: im 25 male, been playing for 8 years
have seen coaches in the past 6 years
they have fixed almost all technical issues
my highest break is 132
my average break is 30-40 ( the problem is here)

i have this prblem where i see balls lined up but i consistently miss to one side of pocket depending on the angle ( an example when i finish high on black quarter ball on either side of table )
now some of you might think that i need to practice that angle 10000 times, but its not that i dont practice the angles. its my eyes

recently i went to a coach, he said you must have come here to test me! because you look perfect, your timing, cueing, stance, bridge hand, front/back pause, follow through, body movement, staying still etc.
after a while he said now he believes me. caz i told him what do i miss.
he checked my alignment with lazer, 2 chalks etc, and it was perfect in the centre. he tried many things but he said he cant help me with my sighting problem

went to another coach after him
spent 2 days on lazer, but i was dead straight on centre, so he said must be sighting issue

i asked these coaches could it be my right/left eye, they said it could be


went to opt to check to my eyes, and they said my right eye is stronger
checked the youtube method, poiting at something and closing eyes to find which eye is dominat, so its right eye

went to the club, practiced with the cue slightly under my right eye ( felt so uncomfortable, missing every angle shot, thought maybe it effected my cueing aswell )
played for a week, still the same. except that i was not any longer missing those high blacks and my long potting was bang on

however i put the cue slightly under left eye chin and it felt better and i was playing much better than the cue (default centre chin). however i still missed those high blacks


went to see a coach again and he said some people might be cross eye dominant

sometimes when you tilt your head and put the cue under left eye and because your head is tilted the right eye would be over the cue, which means even though the cue is towards left eye but u would still be using left eye


at this point im very confused, but im sure it has to do with sighting, since nothing is wrong with my technique, videos like hundreds of shots to detect something but nothing is wrong with technique


i hope someone in here could help me
thank you

[howardlax]

Hi Beast,

I wish my highest could be like yours over the ton, then my confidence will boost.

Anyway, I been there with all the doubts of my vision center as well. I am very strong on left eye(rightie) and almost nearly put cue under my left eye.
I've always missed high on black to left, no matter wherever on cue I put my chin to, even I deliberately aimed right.

Now I am more confident on those shot. In the end, I finally realized it's not the vision center. Eye/brain is a wonderful function in human body it does figure out the angle even if you slightly out of norm.

It is the STANCE that matters. Even I thought cue was bang on in line , but all the mistakes I've made would cause it offline.
Some mistakes I have made:
a) not chest to cue
b) not properly do PSR
c) dropping left hips wrong
d) cueing issue like jabbing quitting
e) general twitch...

Just to repeat what vmax always said, STANCE is vital. Really you make this part right, ball will go in.

[snooker beast]

Hi Beast,

I wish my highest could be like yours over the ton, then my confidence will boost.

Anyway, I been there with all the doubts of my vision center as well. I am very strong on left eye(rightie) and almost nearly put cue under my left eye.
I've always missed high on black to left, no matter wherever on cue I put my chin to, even I deliberately aimed right.

Now I am more confident on those shot. In the end, I finally realized it's not the vision center. Eye/brain is a wonderful function in human body it does figure out the angle even if you slightly out of norm.

It is the STANCE that matters. Even I thought cue was bang on in line , but all the mistakes I've made would cause it offline.
Some mistakes I have made:
a) not chest to cue
b) not properly do PSR
c) dropping left hips wrong
d) cueing issue like jabbing quitting
e) general twitch...

Just to repeat what vmax always said, STANCE is vital. Really you make this part right, ball will go in.

I did try changing my stance, moved to right and to left nothing changed. the thing is that when the alignment is perfect and i get down that shot doesnt look straight to me! so you think this is still stance? its been years that coaches kept telling me not to go after vision centre or dominant eye theory but it i still cant see a straight shot straight.



please watch this video to understand and pause during the text part to read and please do help me if you can
thank you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTdvMLqyf3M

[tomwalker147]

Beast, is your highest break from an actual frame or was it done on a line up/practice? Just trying to work out what your level actually is.
If you made the 132 in a frame or match then i'd suggest you abandon this dominant eye avenue you're going down and put the practice in, gather some confidence and play your natural game.

You see so many players who get stuck at a certain level who then start looking at this theory believing their dominant eye is holding them back from further progress. I'll be honest I don't even know which eye I sight with, if that came into my head in practice or a match i'd be seriously worried about where my head was at. Thoughts shouldn't be on the technical side besides making sure you keep your head still ont he shot and deliver the cue positively.

It'd be good to see a video of you playing. Coaches aren't always correct, at the end of the day the worst snooker player in the world could become a coach so long as they know the theory.
Ask the better players in your local club too.

[vmax]

It's evolutionary and to do with the way the human brain evolved hand/eye co-ordination to use weapons like spears and bows and arrows. Mostly a persons sighting eye is opposite to their dominant hand in order to turn the body for the throwing of the spear with the dominant hand for the holding of the bow with the submissive hand that points down the line of aim.
Your dominant eye is irrelevant in these actions but you can all see that the very best potters in snooker have their cue directly under one eye. For Judd, Ronnie and Neil it's the opposite eye to the dominant hand, but in snooker the cue action is not dependant on the position of the body for power like it is in javelin or fast bowling in cricket where sideways is the natural and best way.

In snooker if your sighting eye is also your dominant eye and is the same as your dominant hand then a simple turn of the body can bring the cue under that eye so all is nice and straight like Hendry and Bingham. What you must never do is move the cue under your alledged dominant eye (because of some theory) only with your arm, because not only will it look and feel wrong but on the delivery stroke your arm will probably resort to natural and you will cue around the line rather than straight down it.

What's natural is best for you, but if somehow you're changing something about your positioning as you step into or get down into your stance then you need to find what it is. You could be turning one or both of your feet, you could be standing square on to the line confusing your natural sighting when standing side on to favour your sighting eye could be best. Remember that we have two eyes and the brain makes one picture of the two images it is receiving, but only one eye is used to see a straight line and the brain subconsciously shuts down one of the images it's receiving to see this line. There is only one line of aim and the brain doesn't put the cue directly in the middle of the two images of the line it's receiving, it picks one of them and points the cue down that one only, it's natural and must not be overidden but can be helped with positioning, STANCE.

[kehall]

only one eye is used to see a straight line and the brain subconsciously shuts down one of the images it's receiving to see this line. There is only one line of aim and the brain doesn't put the cue directly in the middle of the two images of the line it's receiving, it picks one of them and points the cue down that one only

Just to add in here... I don't think this is 100% fits all (or I must be freakish), as I certainly don't see lines with one eye unless I close one of them... In order for me to line up a shot I equally space the image from both eyes such that the 'line' is down the middle of them (this depends on focal point too!)... In other words, if you were to have me looking down a line (say holding a piece of card edge on), then the centre of said card will be slap between both eyes when I line up.. If I try any traditional 'dominant eye' test, it fails as I see equally with both eyes!

What I don't really know is if that is a help or a hindrance!

[inevermissblue]

Aside from sighting. Let's not forget how much variants of backswing and delivery can affect the outcome. Even when all else seems to be sound. These last two actions are mostly overlooked.:snooker:< perfect delivery!!!

[vmax]

Just to add in here... I don't think this is 100% fits all (or I must be freakish), as I certainly don't see lines with one eye unless I close one of them... In order for me to line up a shot I equally space the image from both eyes such that the 'line' is down the middle of them (this depends on focal point too!)... In other words, if you were to have me looking down a line (say holding a piece of card edge on), then the centre of said card will be slap between both eyes when I line up.. If I try any traditional 'dominant eye' test, it fails as I see equally with both eyes!

What I don't really know is if that is a help or a hindrance!

Of course you see equally when simply looking at an object or a clearly defined line like a cue just lying on the table, but point something like a cue at an object and the brain immediately switches into aiming mode and the object becomes a target and is then being focussed on by one eye only to place the cue on the one and only straight line to the target.

Forget the imagined line itself and just point your finger at a target while focussing on your finger with the target in the background, then focus on the target and you will see a ghost image of the finger from the eye that the brain isn't using. Close one eye and then the other and your finger will switch from pointing straight at the object to pointing just beside it, this is the same for everyone unless you're blind in one eye.

[kehall]

Forget the imagined line itself and just point your finger at a target while focussing on your finger with the target in the background, then focus on the target and you will see a ghost image of the finger from the eye that the brain isn't using. Close one eye and then the other and your finger will switch from pointing straight at the object to pointing just beside it, this is the same for everyone unless you're blind in one eye.

The issue there is that this isn't consistent, with me at least (and I'm sure there's others). I naturally point to the centre of an object, looking at that object I now see two 'ghost' fingers as you call it one either side... I can force myself to point one finger directly to the object but it could easily vary between left and right then, there is no automatic default!

If you focus on your finger first, then which of the two ghost target images in the background do you choose between before focussing on the target to then see the ghost finger and does this change if you use your other hand?

Some I'm sure have a very strong dominance where this is accurate, but there must also be such as thing as equal dominance... I was reading on the subject yesterday and this so called dominance can change simply by the angle of sighting from a straight on head position, if the 'target' is in the left hand side of your gaze then you can favour your left eye for sighting, same with the right side (to a point where your nose gets in the way at least where you have no option but use one eye).. That may explain why some dominant eye people can sight better when turning their head slightly??

Interesting stuff!

[inevermissblue]

You can quite easily choose either eye. However, once down on the shot it is imperative that you maintain the focus from this eye, once down on the shot.
just sat in your living room, focus on the TV's brand name and bring your pointing finger up to that target. You will see two fingers. The finger to your right is being focused on by your left eye. The one to the right is being focused by the right eye.
This is how you approach the cue ball. The TV logo is the cue ball and the finger you select is your cue.

[vmax]

If you focus on your finger first, then which of the two ghost target images in the background do you choose between before focussing on the target to then see the ghost finger and does this change if you use your other hand?

If you have your hand in your lap and focus on the finger without pointing it at anything then you will see only one finger because then you're not aiming, your brain knows this and turns both images into one, OK so it's not easy to then point that finger accurately at an object while focussing solely on the finger because the brain's aiming mechanism will naturally take over and will try to focus on the object and shut out one eye, but you can overide this and it can be done, you can then focus on the object and see which finger is pointing right at it.

You should also notice that although your finger is pointing straight to the object, your arm is coming from outside the fingers line of aim with the finger then at an angle to point straight to the object rather than carry on with the arm. This is the essence of hand/eye co-ordination, the hand or in this case the finger is controlled by the eye and this is the same with the cue; the hand, together with the position of the arm, will place the cue on the line of aim determined by the focus of the sighting eye looking along the cue, the longer the cue the easier this becomes as there is more straight line to look along. How many fully grown adults can place a 36 inch cue accurately on the line of aim ? none, as you're then pistol shooting from the hip and relying on your binocular vision for accuracy, so you can a shoot a ball directly into a pocket like this but contacting one ball onto another to pot it needs far more accuracy and which is why we use rifle sighting.

This is why stance is so important for getting the butt of the cue on the line of aim so that your natural sighting can take over, stand in the right place and it's all natural. If you don't get this right then no amount of straight cueing will make you a good player as you will always be cueing across the line of aim, get this right however and straight cueing will be much, much easier.

If your cue stance position means that you have this sighting problem then you should force yourself as to which eye you use by adjusting your stance, because having the cue pointing inbetween two possible targets that are in fact one simply won't work because there's really nothing there but the space between the two images from each eye that the brain turns into one and to be honest if there's nothing there then there's nothing there to hit.

[Thats andy]

Do you believe the pad of the thumb on the bridge hand and the tip of the thumb and the side of the first finger near the nail on grip hand play any part of the cue action?

[vmax]

It could play a part in ensuring both hands work in tandem, depends on your grip I suppose as some players don't hold the cue with the first finger at all.