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O'Sullivan v Hendry - Masters Pedigree

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  • gavpowell
    started a topic O'Sullivan v Hendry - Masters Pedigree

    O'Sullivan v Hendry - Masters Pedigree

    If Ronnie equals Hendry's Masters record tomorrow(and I don't think he will), it will be an amazing achievement. But are the two's Masters records comparable?

    After all, Hendry won five in a row, including his tournament debut. On the other hand, he played fewer frames, as from 1996, the tournament gained its present format, early rounds becoming best of 11 and the final a best of 19, instead of best of 9 and 17. Were Hendry's opponents easier, harder or about the same as O'Sullivan's? One of the things that astonished me while researching this a bit, was just how much Jimmy White could have won if not for Hendry - year after year he got to the semis and got an absolute pasting. Likewise, I had no idea Griffiths had gone on so long - the idea of O'Sullivan playing El Tel is hilarious!

    Anyway, here are the two legends' respective records, starting with the most recent victory and from final to first round:

    Hendry

    1996 O'Sullivan, White, McManus, John Higgins
    1993 Wattana, McManus, Wilkinson, Doherty
    1992 Parrott, White, Dean Reynolds, Martin Clark
    1991 Mike Hallett, White, Tony Meo, Virgo
    1990 Parrott, White,Thorne, James,
    1989 Parrott, Davis, Griffiths, Thorne

    O'Sullivan

    2016 Hawkins, Bingham, Selby, Williams
    2014 Selby, Maguire,Walden, Milkins
    2009 Selby, Maguire. Carter, Perry
    2007 Ding, Maguire, Doherty, Carter
    2005 Higgins, White, Ding, Dott
    1995 Higgins, Ebdon, Griffiths, Parrott
    Last edited by gavpowell; 19th January 2016, 01:45 AM.

  • Hello, Mr Big Shot
    replied
    Stephen lee and Matthew Stevens? Good grief!

    Leave a comment:


  • itsnoteasy
    replied
    I think Stephen Lee was a cracking shout, world number five ,while trying not to win! Imagine where he would have been if he was flat out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronnington
    replied
    Ah yes, forgot about Matthew Stevens, Ebdon and Doherty quality players in their respective primes. I only mentioned Stephen Lee because of his ridiculously exceptional cue action and (wasted) talent

    Leave a comment:


  • Le Ball Sack
    replied
    Doherty was still decent then, Ebdon too.

    Originally posted by Ronnington View Post
    I think the 1999-2004 era was the strongest it's ever been.

    Hendry, O'Sullivan, prime Mark Williams, John Higgins, Paul Hunter, Stephen Lee etc.

    Ronnie and Jimmy White both said on Eurosport this was the most competitive time in snooker for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hatcherjob
    replied
    Originally posted by Hello, Mr Big Shot View Post
    I can't see what everyone else does when it comes to Hendry's commentary. He's the worst there is, both as commentator or pundit. He rarely says anything, which puts pressure on the co-commentator to fill the void.
    Have to disagree with you. I never liked him as a player, but he's a terrific commentator, because he talks through breaks on an expert level, rather than some of the older commentators like Taylor and Virgo who assume the audience are laymen. Reminds me of Coulthard in F1. I have learnt far more about the technicalities of the sport since he's been behind the mic on the beeb. As somebody that's watched snooker all my life, I already know 99% of what John Virgo is telling me when a player is at the table, but Hendry really gets technical, like you might expect from a snooker coach and I feel I learn a lot. Indeed, though I mentioned Taylor and Virgo, I like those commentators too, as I feel voice, warmth and personality are important. Therefore, when you pair them up with Hendry and Doherty (who has a similar technical way of commenting), then you get a perfect match I feel.

    Also on your other point about dead air, I also like that because so often nothing needs to be said. Listen to Mike Hallet to appreciate a lack of talk. That guy commentates as if its a horse race, and constantly predicts where the cue-balls going to end up - but is often wrong, like - "Oh this looks good...does it? I think so, he's, hang on, has he found the gap, maybe not, I was going to say he landed on the black perfectly, but it just rolled that extra inch, unlucky". - Not an exaggeration that. Every single word of a ball in motion is needless.

    Leave a comment:


  • Philk1958
    replied
    Stephen Lee!!!! Seriously.

    Leave a comment:


  • tetricky
    replied
    Originally posted by Leo View Post
    I would sling Matthew Stevens in that bunch too. He was solid back then.
    Not so great over the short form but one of the best long matchplay players not to be a world champion. In this era he probably would have been.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leo
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronnington View Post
    I think the 1999-2004 era was the strongest it's ever been.

    Hendry, O'Sullivan, prime Mark Williams, John Higgins, Paul Hunter, Stephen Lee etc.

    Ronnie and Jimmy White both said on Eurosport this was the most competitive time in snooker for them.
    I would sling Matthew Stevens in that bunch too. He was solid back then.

    Leave a comment:


  • itsnoteasy
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronnington View Post
    I think the 1999-2004 era was the strongest it's ever been.

    Hendry, O'Sullivan, prime Mark Williams, John Higgins, Paul Hunter, Stephen Lee etc.

    Ronnie and Jimmy White both said on Eurosport this was the most competitive time in snooker for them.
    That's quite a line up, wouldn't give today's top five much of a hope against them, and they say snooker has moved on! Any one of the above would give Ronnie a run for his money, they certainly wouldn't crumble under the pressure.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronnington
    replied
    I think the 1999-2004 era was the strongest it's ever been.

    Hendry, O'Sullivan, prime Mark Williams, John Higgins, Paul Hunter, Stephen Lee etc.

    Ronnie and Jimmy White both said on Eurosport this was the most competitive time in snooker for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • winphenom
    replied
    Well..i can only deduce that John Higgins to some is the greatest player because he is self trained and has quite a good all round game. But i think he got to this level was also partly due to Stephen Hendry's influence and mentality. This is because he used to play and practice often with Hendry in his younger days which honed his all round game to such a high standard.

    Leave a comment:


  • itsnoteasy
    replied
    Originally posted by winphenom View Post
    You are right Itsnoteasy. But it works both ways with other players as well. If Steve Davis and Hendry were in the modern era, then they will definitely practice, improve and find a way to beat the rest just like they raised snooker standards at their era. Its what pushes sportsman around the world to beat the world records through all sports and all ages.
    Ronnie is now playing at a standard in the Welsh Open which is a class above the rest of the field now. Unbelievable that his safety, long pots and table clearances are at this level which i feel only Robertson or Selby can try to match. The rest will have to catch up to be in that league.
    That's exactly what I mean, it blows my mind to think what standard of snooker those three players would have produced if they were all at their peak all pushing each other to the limits of their talent and mental strength ,it may have broken snooker! So that's why it wasn't allowed to happen.
    Odrl, I have spoken with two pros and I asked them the question who was the best they have ever played or seen and they both said John Higgins had the most talent out of anyone, which did surprise me.

    Leave a comment:


  • armstm
    replied
    yes good point. his standard was unreal that year.
    Originally posted by Odrl View Post
    Just to add to the "8 months off" discussion, John Higgins was away from the game for more than 7 months before winning the 2010 UK Championship, his first event back from suspension. He then added the Welsh Open and the World title in what was left of that season, but for some reason the comparison with O'Sullivan's absence is never made...

    Leave a comment:


  • winphenom
    replied
    You are right Itsnoteasy. But it works both ways with other players as well. If Steve Davis and Hendry were in the modern era, then they will definitely practice, improve and find a way to beat the rest just like they raised snooker standards at their era. Its what pushes sportsman around the world to beat the world records through all sports and all ages.
    Ronnie is now playing at a standard in the Welsh Open which is a class above the rest of the field now. Unbelievable that his safety, long pots and table clearances are at this level which i feel only Robertson or Selby can try to match. The rest will have to catch up to be in that league.

    Leave a comment:

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