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A question of a match yesterday

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  • #31
    I must admit, it does sound like a push shot... but the path of the cue ball suggests otherwise. Tough call, and I'm surprised he called it.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by vmax4steve View Post
      That sound was the tip of the cue striking the bed of the table, no push shot was played. Collier may have thought he heard a double hit, but when a push shot is played then both the cue ball and the object ball travel at the same speed and the cue ball doesn't delay before going forward as it's still in contact with the tip. When playing a push shot with screw the cue ball will jump, same as it will when forced into the bed of the table, hence the confusion from the ref, also the cue ball was played across the red not directly at it.
      That's the trouble with referees in all sports, they know the rules but don't know the game.

      Still no matter as Brecel won the frame anyway, but Collier should have taken Marco's opinion on board and backed down. Two world class players saying it wasn't a foul means it wasn't a foul.

      And lots of players completely clueless about what happens when balls collide...

      As for this shot, I'd say foul. There is quite amazing super slo mo footage of what happens when the balls are close and there are all sorts of double hits and push shots that are invisible to the naked eye. Luckily, common sense applies and they aren't called fouls.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Londonlad147 View Post
        Sorry but you simply can't have refs asking the players if they've just committed a foul!

        At local level I *know* there are players who would never own up to their own fouls, even if they're blatantly obvious.
        That's really bad, I don't think I know anyone who wouldn't call a foul on themselves, modern society I suppose. Do you really think a pro, knowing that all the cameras are on him would deliberately cheat? I know some aren't the sharpest, as we have seen with the betting scandals, but surely they know they wouldn't get away with it.
        This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
        https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

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        • #34
          Anyone want to post the famed video of the Higgins push that was debated a few years back?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by narl View Post
            Anyone want to post the famed video of the Higgins push that was debated a few years back?
            I am unaware of your referenced video as I have only been the very occasional contributor here and so not involved in that debate at the time. However, I have been going through the Alex Higgins video thread as he is by far my favourite player from an entertainment point of view so I watch video of him whenever opportunity presents itself. By coincidence, I came across this piece of video:

            https://youtu.be/XZW6VxHK-hY?t=559

            which very much parallels the Luca Brecel incident in an "old-timey" sort of way. So looking at Alex Higgins here, especially watching the "modern technology" slow motion of the time, again I have to concur with the Referee even though the great Clive Everton did not believe it to be a foul. My reasoning on this one is different though and I really commend the Referee for having a better eye than literally everyone in the building and sticking to his call because he is right. When you watch the slo-mo, watch the movement of the White ball. As a screw shot is being played, after contact with Yellow, the White ball should then travel at a line perpendicular to line of travel of Yellow and it should NOT cross forward of that line. After traveling that "tangent line" or "stun line", then the spin on White should take effect grabbing the cloth and the White should then screw back as we see. However, that is NOT what happens....the White does in fact quite clearly cross forward of the stun line before screwing back.

            There is only three ways that this can possibly happen: 1) the shot was played as a top spin or natural roll shot so White will cross the line, not true in this case, 2) the White has more physical mass than the object ball, therefore it carries momentum rather than transferring all forward momentum to the object ball, also not true in this case, or 3) the tip of the cue remained in contact with the White upon contact with the Yellow, thereby pushing the White beyond the stun line like a shuffleboard puck before the spin has opportunity to take hold of the cloth to screw back. Ding-ding-ding!

            Number 3 is the only logical conclusion and the proper call made by the Referee despite all the hubbub in the arena.

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            • #36
              and so - in other news the paint on my wall is almost dry

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              • #37
                I saw that Judd Trump called it a foul on twitter the other day
                (sorry Byrom, hope it is a lovely shade of beige )
                Up the TSF!

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