Decelerating?

[Cue crafty]

Putting right hand side on the CB will throw the OB to the left & vice versa.
Just keep practicing.
After a while it becomes second nature.

Hahaha,,, sure we have all discussed this before..

Yep, thats my effort done. Biggie will be all over this shortly smacking his bitches up! Lol.

[travisbickle]

Hahaha,,, sure we have all discussed this before..

I couldn’t resist lol

[Billy]

I think you're all missing the point here. Please refer back to the OP. I don't play snooker and I'm not looking for help, advice or tips on playing with side.

I was just using the cut back on the black scenario as an example to try and help me better understand the whole 'deceleration results in hitting the object ball thin' theory.

Let me try and break it down in a series of questions, to avoid any confusion as to what I'm trying to get an answer to. Bare in mind all this stems from Hendry's frequent remark during commentary, that deceleration on a pot can be identified by the fact the pot is always missed on the thin side. This as far as I understand, only applies to cut backs.

1. Why should decelerating on a shot result in ANY kind of miss (aside from the OB possibly not reaching the pocket)?
2. Why should decelerating on a shot result in the pot always being over-cut (too thin) as opposed to under-cut (too thick)?

Just explain to me, in simple terms, what happens during a decelerated shot, from the moment the cuetip strikes the CB, to the moment the OB is over-cut.

When the player lines the pot up (presumably correctly) but then decelerates, something must happen which causes that pot to be over-cut. What is that 'thing'?

And don't just say the deceleration causes the player to hit the CB off-centre, because that doesn't answer the question, as unwanted side could just as easily results in the pot being UNDER-cut, depending on what unwanted side (left or right) is applied.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

When using side the general rule of thumb is to aim a bit thicker, so when decelerating on a centre cue ball tip address the cue will move offline before the strike rather than after it because the hand closes too early, so imparting any side without compensating will mean missing on the thin side.

Over to biggie and Dr. Dave and another hundred pages as to why Hendry doesn't have a clue

Neal foulds does. Several times this week he has described SIT eg "he used left hand side to straighten the red" etc.

[travisbickle]

I think you're all missing the point here. Please refer back to the OP. I don't play snooker and I'm not looking for help, advice or tips on playing with side.

I was just using the cut back on the black scenario as an example to try and help me better understand the whole 'deceleration results in hitting the object ball thin' theory.

Let me try and break it down in a series of questions, to avoid any confusion as to what I'm trying to get an answer to. Bare in mind all this stems from Hendry's frequent remark during commentary, that deceleration on a pot can be identified by the fact the pot is always missed on the thin side. This as far as I understand, only applies to cut backs.

1. Why should decelerating on a shot result in ANY kind of miss (aside from the OB possibly not reaching the pocket)?
2. Why should decelerating on a shot result in the pot always being over-cut (too thin) as opposed to under-cut (too thick)?

Just explain to me, in simple terms, what happens during a decelerated shot, from the moment the cuetip strikes the CB, to the moment the OB is over-cut.

When the player lines the pot up (presumably correctly) but then decelerates, something must happen which causes that pot to be over-cut. What is that 'thing'?

And don't just say the deceleration causes the player to hit the CB off-centre, because that doesn't answer the question, as unwanted side could just as easily results in the pot being UNDER-cut, depending on what unwanted side (left or right) is applied.

I’m not really sure why tbh Billy.
But I do know if you decelerate on mid range angled pots you will always hit it thin, especially with the rest for some reason.
Maybe a coach on here could help

[throtts]

I think you're all missing the point here. Please refer back to the OP. I don't play snooker and I'm not looking for help, advice or tips on playing with side.

I was just using the cut back on the black scenario as an example to try and help me better understand the whole 'deceleration results in hitting the object ball thin' theory.

Let me try and break it down in a series of questions, to avoid any confusion as to what I'm trying to get an answer to. Bare in mind all this stems from Hendry's frequent remark during commentary, that deceleration on a pot can be identified by the fact the pot is always missed on the thin side. This as far as I understand, only applies to cut backs.

1. Why should decelerating on a shot result in ANY kind of miss (aside from the OB possibly not reaching the pocket)?
2. Why should decelerating on a shot result in the pot always being over-cut (too thin) as opposed to under-cut (too thick)?

Just explain to me, in simple terms, what happens during a decelerated shot, from the moment the cuetip strikes the CB, to the moment the OB is over-cut.

PM - Hello Mr Big Shot,

The Physics may well come in to play with regard to a accurate answer.

We all knew we wasn't really answering your post correctly, its just the whole side debates turned in to a right to do.

You can decelerate your stick when striking through the CB and still pot the OB but position should suffer.

Point 1 = The CB has gone off line from not getting a clean hit.

Point 2 = SH has presumed from the thin cut miss that side has been put on the CB via deceleration. On sighting the player played the pot normal plain ball, BOB hitting, but, decelerates, thus hitting the OB even thinner due to side. Because remember, when using side you aim and sight the CB to hit the OB thicker but the payer that decelerated and missed thin didn't look in to his crystal ball before playing the shot to tell him he was about to decelerate so you better aim thicker on your next shot.

Haha, thats the best I can do.

I do use side during breaks and when I aim and sight I do compensate so automatically so I really used that to think about writing Point 2 above.

Guys, flame me please if you disagree..

[travisbickle]

PM - Hello Mr Big Shot,

The Physics may well come in to play with regard to a accurate answer.

We all knew we wasn't really answering your post correctly, its just the whole side debates turned in to a right to do.

You can decelerate your stick when striking through the CB and still pot the OB but position should suffer.

Point 1 = The CB has gone off line from not getting a clean hit.

Point 2 = SH has presumed from the thin cut miss that side has been put on the CB via deceleration. On sighting the player played the pot normal plain ball, BOB hitting, but, decelerates, thus hitting the OB even thinner due to side. Because remember, when using side you aim and sight the CB to hit the OB thicker but the payer that decelerated and missed thin didn't look in to his crystal ball before playing the shot to tell him he was about to decelerate so you better aim thicker on your next shot.

Haha, thats the best I can do.

I do use side during breaks and when I aim and sight I do compensate so automatically so I really used that to think about writing Point 2 above.

Guys, flame me please if you disagree..

Playing the shot with side makes it easy to understand why you would hit a pot thin if you decelerate.
But even when you are playing center ball striking and you decelerate on the shot you will hit the pot thin.
I know this happens but I don’t have a clue why this should be the case.

[Billy]

On sighting the player played the pot normal plain ball, BOB hitting, but, decelerates, thus hitting the OB even thinner due to side.

You see this is the bit that doesn't make sense to me, and the part of the question I don't seem to be able to get through to anyone.

I can fully understand why decelerating causes the player to apply unwanted side, but (and I'm not shouting here) WHY DOES THAT ALWAYS RESULT IN THE OBJECT BALL BEING HIT THIN?

If the deceleration causes the player to apply unwanted side, it must matter WHAT (unwanted) side they apply? One player may apply (unwanted) LEFT hand side when decelerating, another layer may apply (unwanted) RIGHT hand side.

If for a given shot unwanted LEFT hand side results in the ball being OVER-cut, then unwanted RIGHT hand side would result in it being UNDER-cut, yes??

[Billy]

I’m not really sure why tbh Billy.
But I do know if you decelerate on mid range angled pots you will always hit it thin, especially with the rest for some reason.
Maybe a coach on here could help

Which side of the table must also be a factor.

Going back to the cut back to left black pocket (with cue ball near the black cushion). If unwanted LEFT side is applied to this CB because of decel, then the pot would be missed thin as the object ball would get thrown to the right. But if this was in the right black pocket, the same unwanted left side should result in the ball being caught too thick.

[throtts]

But even when you are playing center ball striking and you decelerate on the shot you will hit the pot thin.

Edit add - To Billy & Travs,

If you decelerate on a shot sighting and intending plain centre CB striking it may well be your not going to hit the CB cleanly on its centre and its probable that the tip hits the CB with some side applied, thus, missing the pot thin because you have and are not going to make allowances for a kack deceleration.

Thats my best opinion, guys.

[travisbickle]

Which side of the table must also be a factor.

Going back to the cut back to left black pocket (with cue ball near the black cushion). If unwanted LEFT side is applied to this CB because of decel, then the pot would be missed thin as the object ball would get thrown to the right. But if this was in the right black pocket, the same unwanted left side should result in the ball being caught too thick.

I’m not sure about check side because the OB will be thrown thicker.
But if you play plain ball and running side and decelerate on the shot you will overcut it.
Sorry I can’t help

[Billy]

Okay, here we go.

In the first image, unwanted left-hand side (as a result of decel) would result in the CB throwing to the right, thus resulting in the pot being missed thin, yes?

BUT, in the second image, that same unwanted left-hand side would result in the same throw, thus resulting in the pot being missed thick.

This is why I'm confused as to why decel always results in pots being missed thin.

cutbackleft.png

cutbackright.png

[travisbickle]

Okay, here we go.

In the first image, unwanted left-hand side (as a result of decel) would result in the CB throwing to the right, thus resulting in the pot being missed thin, yes?

BUT, in the second image, that same unwanted left-hand side would result in the same throw, thus resulting in the pot being missed thick.

This is why I'm confused as to why decel always results in pots being missed thin.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18958[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18957[/ATTACH]

You’ll do well to overcut both shots

[throtts]

Okay, here we go.

In the first image, unwanted left-hand side (as a result of decel) would result in the CB throwing to the right, thus resulting in the pot being missed thin, yes?

BUT, in the second image, that same unwanted left-hand side would result in the same throw, thus resulting in the pot being missed thick.

This is why I'm confused as to why decel always results in pots being missed thin.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18958[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18957[/ATTACH]

I would like to see some shots that SH says a deceleration has a effect on.

Billy,,,, if I was presented those 2 shot examples in your pics and someone said to me pot both blacks with left hand side I would aim and sight the BOB. The 2 blacks will not present themselves enough on sighting to do other.

The first example I wouldn't play anyway with LH because its not productive. Obviously the second I may play with LH if I wanted to miss other balls on the table after the CB hits the cushion.

And Billy, don't look to deeply in to what the guys say on the box. Obviously I respect SH but these legends feel they are allowed to voice really whatever they want to. Sure listen to it but then try the stuff out on a table for your own findings. Its the same for us lot on here, its so hard on this forum to give answers.

Cheers.

[Billy]

I give in.

I tried my best to make it clear what it is I'm asking, but even with pictures I'm not making my point clear.