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Burroughes & Watts Unusual Table

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    I'd have said that the carving was supposed to represent the pomegranate. That would certainly give rise to an interesting number of allegorical options. I'd be pretty confident that the frame was somewhere in the 1880s. Probably towards the early part of that decade. This type of carving became very popular from around that date, and if it was done after 1890 I doubt they would have felt compelled to replace the cushions.
    Last edited by 100-uper; 6 December 2017, 02:39 PM.

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  • andy carson
    replied
    Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
    Thanks for the replies everyone, very interesting. So it seems like a bit of a mystery as to who actually made the table and when it dates back from. Does anybody know what the carving is supposed to represent? I thought it looks a bit like cocoa pods on the third picture that are carved into the wood but I don't think that's what they are!
    with the location of the table i would suggest they might be cotton plants. Bury, Rammy, Blackburn & the Irwell valley was one of the main production areas of cotton based products during the industrial revolution. (the first mill to be built in all those areas is now apartments in summerseat next to where the waterside was before the floods - that itself was part of the mill originally)

    *edit*

    just to add a piece of work I did last year on the industry not far from radvegas

    https://acarsonucbcphoto.wordpress.c...ingwater-mill/
    Last edited by andy carson; 6 December 2017, 02:20 PM.

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  • Geoff Large
    replied
    It could be cocoa pods , there are also berry's or beans on the leaf part and a round design at each end maybe the head of a grinder tool or grid .
    if it is cocoa pods then it may well be made for an main importer or processor of Cocoa beans for chocolate , so the table may well have been in a boardroom or large country house for a chocolate factory owner
    this points to Nestle or Cadburys or Bournerville or any prominent chocolate manufacturer .
    the spiral reed design of the lower leg is unusual , the carved frame more or less confirms the cushions are not original to the frame , the cushions may have had carved back panels or even edge of upper capping carved .

    one thing I will point out is to get them to take those rest hooks off the table , X rest end nibble is causing damage to the carvings .
    they require round cue racks to keep the rests in , any highly polished table or carved table it is best not to fit rest hooks to the table , you will damage the table when you place the x rest back on you bang the wood with the brass head , this marks and over a few thousand placements you are through the polish and wearing away the wood as in this case .

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  • dmorley85
    replied
    Thanks for the replies everyone, very interesting. So it seems like a bit of a mystery as to who actually made the table and when it dates back from. Does anybody know what the carving is supposed to represent? I thought it looks a bit like cocoa pods on the third picture that are carved into the wood but I don't think that's what they are!
    Last edited by dmorley85; 6 December 2017, 02:01 AM.

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    Billiard tables don't get much better than this in my opinion. Made by Orme for the Royal Jubilee Exhibition at Manchester which ran from May to November 1887. The panels apparently depict the stability of the monarchy by showing historical succession round the billiard table connecting Queen Victoria with William the Conqueror. Not sure why he was considered the starting point, but I suppose they had limited space available. It was all "height of the Empire" sycophantic stuff, but very impressive nonetheless. It was apparently dubbed the "Queen" table during the course of the exhibition.
    Last edited by 100-uper; 5 December 2017, 08:44 PM.

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  • Geoff Large
    replied
    Just had a look at my billiards simplified book at leg designs and nothing like this in the Burroughs and watts section of examples of tables and equipment , but they did do 4 tables with carved knee panels although I have never worked on one like these 4 examples .
    if you have a billiards simplified book with Burroughs and watts designs in the rear the carved ones are examples nine ten eleven and twelve .

    I have worked on many Orme carved oak tables though , and the mixed wood ebony and oak ones too which look very nice

    link below , here is in my opinion one of the finest carved oak tables by Orme ever built

    http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-a...d-table/186973
    Last edited by Geoff Large; 5 December 2017, 06:51 PM.

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    Thanks Geoff. My first thought when I looked at the twisting engraving around the leg of this table was Orme, although nothing else fits with one of their designs that is obvious to me. I have also seen something similar from Ashcroft, although not close enough to say it displays any other common feature with their tables.

    These "one-off" tables tended to be made for special occasions, such as exhibitions, and there were plenty of those from 1850 onwards. By the 1880s they were popping up all over the place. There were typically exhibitions for Brewers', Licensed Victuallers, Sports & Pastimes, Shoe and Leather, Printing & Kindred Trade, Music Trades, Furnishing Trades, not to mention local town exhibitions, with both local and international exhibitors, lasting anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months. Believe it or not, all of the exhibitions I've mentioned attracted a few billiard table manufacturers who would have produced a special table to showcase all the latest features. These would usually be sold at the exhibition itself.

    This one looks like it has hand-carved panels, and typically work like this would have been given to a contractor rather being than done in-house, then the panels were set into the frames. Nice to see, but not as rare to see something like this as might be imagined. Not having the original cushion rails rather spoils it for me, even if the B&W ones are better!

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  • Geoff Large
    replied
    Originally posted by 100-uper View Post
    The makers' plate is from 1936-39, (reference to the late King George V) but the table is earlier than that, so the two do not go together. Quite possibly some later work saw the original plate substituted. Although having said that, I'm not convinced that the cushions belong with the frame, and if so, the plate wouldn't matter. I'd have said the cushions were 1890s, as they are invisible pocket plates, but with very old looking rosettes. The frame looks to be a different colour in the photo (different wood?). It could be earlier, maybe by ten years or so. I'd like a closer look. Geoff Large might be able to recognise something familiar, but it looks like a mongrel to me.
    Correct Peter

    looks like steel Burroughs and watts steel upgrade cushions added to a carved oak frame of another manufacturers table.

    could be slates and cushions or just cushions added , as we know Burroughs and watts slotted their cushions to fit any slate bolt spacing around at the time , so they could be retro fitted to any make , I thinking this table frame points to a firm more like Orme & sons who where known for their preference of tables manufactured in oak rather than mahogany , the lack of Burroughs and watts trademark knee panel fixings also point to it not being Burroughs and watts frame .
    I would say hybrid having had an upgrade to steel cushions .

    but hey manufacturers did make a few oddities , but never seen a Burroughs and watts without those knee panels like a church window or oblong panel .
    apart from early button ones never seen one with no leg bolt fixings that where not accessible from the front , it is obvious these are on the inside of the frame work .
    having said that I have not seen an orme that has legs fixed like this too , but I have seen Riley dining tables with fixings on the inside .

    if the frame is extra thick when the slates come off it points to George Wright , or just feel the thickness of framework of the side and end framework .
    if over two inch thick getting on for three inch then George wright .
    Last edited by Geoff Large; 5 December 2017, 06:38 PM.

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  • jrc750
    replied
    Yes that plate only mentions the cushions, not the table

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  • andy carson
    replied
    Originally posted by 100-uper View Post
    The makers' plate is from 1936-39, (reference to the late King George V) but the table is earlier than that, so the two do not go together. Quite possibly some later work saw the original plate substituted. Although having said that, I'm not convinced that the cushions belong with the frame, and if so, the plate wouldn't matter. I'd have said the cushions were 1890s, as they are invisible pocket plates, but with very old looking rosettes. The frame looks to be a different colour in the photo (different wood?). It could be earlier, maybe by ten years or so. I'd like a closer look. Geoff Large might be able to recognise something familiar, but it looks like a mongrel to me.

    knowing the club it will be a triggers mop table......

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  • DeanH
    replied
    Burroughes & Watts Unusual Table

    so probably they changed the plate to reflect the new "latest" cushions when they replaced they original ones?

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  • 100-uper
    replied
    The makers' plate is from 1936-39, (reference to the late King George V) but the table is earlier than that, so the two do not go together. Quite possibly some later work saw the original plate substituted. Although having said that, I'm not convinced that the cushions belong with the frame, and if so, the plate wouldn't matter. I'd have said the cushions were 1890s, as they are invisible pocket plates, but with very old looking rosettes. The frame looks to be a different colour in the photo (different wood?). It could be earlier, maybe by ten years or so. I'd like a closer look. Geoff Large might be able to recognise something familiar, but it looks like a mongrel to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • andy carson
    replied
    Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
    Correct. But have you seen a table like this one before anywhere else?
    thinking back, once and it was a complete wreck. was at a salesian school in gloucestershire if i remember rightly

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  • DeanH
    replied
    Burroughes & Watts Unusual Table

    very similar to a table at a social club I used to go to
    Steel vacuum cushion and very tight pockets
    But no chalk holders.

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  • dmorley85
    replied
    Originally posted by andy carson View Post
    looks like the table in seedfield bowling club.....
    Correct. But have you seen a table like this one before anywhere else?

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