Re-spotted black

[Steve N]

If you are 7 points behind with the black ball to play for a tie and your opponent goes in off and ties the game is the black ball re-spotted or is it game on.

[DeanH]

With the Black the only ball on the table, the first infringement or scoring pot ends the frame - the player with the higher score wins the frame but if the scores are then:
(i) the Black is spotted;
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing next;
(iii) the next player plays from in hand; and
(iv) the first pot or infringement ends the frame.


In your scenario - the "in off" is the infringement. The 7 penalty points are added to your score, the scores are now level, "re-spot Black" as above.

[Delphi]

I have had a situation that made me wonder too, maybe Dean can clarify this one too please?

Player A score 55
Player B score 57
Left on the table white, pink, black.

Player B pots the pink, which brings his score to 63.
Basicly he won the frame since he's 8 points in front with only 7 left and doesn't need to play the black.

He still decides to go for the black and fouls the white into the pocket.
Is the frame still over with player B as winner or do they have to carry on as the score is now 62 (55 + 7 for the foul)-63?

*edit* after re-reading what you said i guess the frame is over, a foul was committed on the last remaining ball, score 62-63 so player B wins

[DeanH]

you answered it yourself; after the penalty points were applied, Player B won having the greater score 63-62.

Player B had the right to claim the frame after potting the Pink because the score is in his favour and is greater than 7(after the Pink 63-55, difference of 8) but Player B has the right to play the Black if he wishes.

[Steve N]

Most of the time the Black ball is potted to make the scores even which means a re-spot...It doesn't seem fair that the Black ball is still in play and has to be re-spotted...just my opinion.

[peejaytwo]

Another re-spot question if I may hijack the thread,

Playing a four ball, a friend of mine insists that it's a "new game" and that he can change the playing order i.e if AB v CD and the order is ACBD. A levels the game and wins the toss. As C is a weaker player than D he wants to put him in. Is this covered in any rules?

[Nifty50]

I would say it’s definitely NOT a new game so the order should not be changed. No doubt someone will post up where it’s covered in the rules.

[DeanH]

...It doesn't seem fair that the Black ball is still in play and has to be re-spotted...just my opinion.

When the Black is the last ball on the table, the first infringement or pot and Cue Ball comes to rest ends the frame, no balls are in play.
If an infringement occurs and the Black stays on the table and it is picked up and spotted and not playing from where it came to rest?
As mentioned, the first infringement and pot ends the frame, the Black is no longer in play, the re-spot is in essence a new "mini" frame and the players choose the next player. At the start of a frame the Black starts on its spot and the Cue Ball is In-Hand.
This choice could be that the last player, either the potter or the offender could be put in.
The re-spot is a clear and fair way of not giving an unfair advantage to anyone, now it is down to skill.

[DeanH]

Another re-spot question if I may hijack the thread,
Playing a four ball, a friend of mine insists that it's a "new game" and that he can change the playing order i.e if AB v CD and the order is ACBD. A levels the game and wins the toss. As C is a weaker player than D he wants to put him in. Is this covered in any rules?

I would say it’s definitely NOT a new game so the order should not be changed. No doubt someone will post up where it’s covered in the rules.

here goes Nifty
you are correct the order is not changed; BUT the starting player can be, that is it does not have to the next player as in that following the player who played the last stroke that equalled the scores.
make sense?

As in a two player game, the players will "draw lots, toss a coin, whatever" to choose who plays next:
Sec 1.4 End of Frame, Game or Match
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply:
(i) the Black is spotted;
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing next;
(iii) the next player plays from in hand; and
(iv) the first pot or infringement ends the frame.

The "draw of lots, whatever" decides which pair has the choice to play or put the opponents in. Exactly the same as in the two player game.

Sec 3.18 Four-handed Snooker
(d) When a frame ends in a tie Section 3 Rule 4 applies. If a re-spotted Black is necessary, the pair who play the first stroke have the choice of which player will make that stroke. The order of play must then continue as in the frame.

The order of play continues as from the frame BUT the player to make the first stroke of the re-spot can be changed, the pair In-Hand can decide who plays the first stroke, the opponents then play the same player who played after in the frame.

So in the OP scenario, AB v CD, A wins the toss, AB can decide to play or to put CD in as a TEAM, AB do not decide which player; CD - takes the first strike.

AB decide to play - AB choose who plays, A or B.
CD are put in to play - CD choose who plays the first stroke, C or D.

the Order after that is as it was in the frame.
A then C
C then B
B then D
D then A


Happy for any professional referee to come on and explain

[my head hurts ]

[Nifty50]

Got it ....I think lol. Not what I thot should happen. My logic would be that if I was Player A in the AB team and I fouled on the black then my turn had ended. My doubles partner, B, would be next to play regardless of whether we won the toss or not. Thanks for clarification.