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Does anyone recognize this table?

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  • Does anyone recognize this table?

    No brand name on the table. It's well over 70 years old. It's located in the USA so maybe it's an American manufacturer? If anyone recognizes it, I'd love to know!

    Untitled-1.jpg
    Untitled-2.jpg
    Last edited by fractivsammy; 25th November 2015, 08:47 AM. Reason: Added another image

  • #2
    The frame looks like a Burroughes and Watts "Club" table c.1905-14. I can't quite see all the details, but the moulding above the leg should have a rounded top if it is a "Club", rather than being rectangular. However, the cushions don't look right for a table of this period. There seems to be a wooden slide covering the bolt holes which is a feature which was introduced in the 1920s.

    Having said that, B&W did restart production after the 1914-18 war using their pre-war designs, and the way to spot whether this is one of them is to see if it has a "Rigidus" frame. This was also introduced in the 1920s, the visible feature of which was that the gap between the centre pair of legs was significantly less that the gap to the corner legs. Looking at the photos this doesn't seem to be the case, however, it's not too easy to see, and if it does have this feature, it could make the cushions original to the table by pushing the manufacturing date into the early 1920s.

    The "Club" table would also have had a thicker slate bed than normal, I think it was 2 inches from memory. If the cushions are steel block, whether replaced or not, would also confirm whether B&W was the supplier. The company were active in Canada throughout this period, so it is quite likely that such a table found its way into North America.

    Geoff Large may be able to spot some additional features which are not obvious to me.

    PS: the link in this post seems to have been automatically applied and is not one that I have created.

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    • #3
      The frame is a Burroughs and watts table with the oblong knee panels and not what I call the church window ones
      Cushions and pocket plates look like Riley's to me Extra broad bow leathers with the slid in panels , I have a set of riley cushions in oak for sale on the web site for a client
      if you look at these you can see they are the same

      http://gclbilliards.com/oak-set-of-r...ley-oak-table/

      , I replaced them with a set of Burroughs and watts steel cushions , so he has a Riley with Burroughs and watts cushions

      you have in your photo burroughs and watts frame with riley cushions , and maybe Riley slates ?

      All Burroughs and watts plates had a bolt going up on the end of the cushion into the pocket plate and where just broad bow leathers

      these pocket plates in this photo will just have an oblong type lug on the end to locate into a oblong slot brass insert in the end of the cushions normally they come loose and rattle

      Geoff
      [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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      • #4
        Thanks for all the great info guys. The person who owns this table is getting rid of it, so a friend and I are planning to pick it up from him. I can post more pics once we have it and it's taken apart. I'm pretty sure the slate is 2 inches. The cloth and cushion response were absolutely horrible, so we are planning on putting in northern rubber and a proper cloth.

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        • #5
          Will be a very beautiful table with a bit of work. Well done.
          王可

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          • #6
            lovely tables those B and Watts - My favourite old tables along with karman & Hillman well worth doing up - get some steel blocked cushions on there and a nice cloth and you are laughing.

            Quite heavy though - harder than you think to move you will need a few of you like four big guys at least and more if possible. Table fitters have the right equipment and just the right daftness to do this for a living. I moved one once - never again
            Last edited by Byrom; 26th November 2015, 11:47 PM.

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            • #7
              My table is a B & W, but with the more contemporary square legs.
              王可

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              • #8
                Originally posted by philip in china View Post
                My table is a B & W, but with the more contemporary square legs.

                You going to miss it like an old girlfriend

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                • #9
                  The B & W isn't the one I am giving away. It is in my snooker room in the house in Bulgaria.

                  It's interesting with regard to aanother thread running at present. The floor is a straightforward concrete floor done by a local builder there. So I doubt if it is dead level. Yet with minimal packing the bed is level so that it shows 0 on a digital level. The level, however, registers the difference if a new bank note is slid under one end of the level. That is how accurate a good table should be. Also it is the Rigidus frame. That has the 4 middle legs close to each other so as to be right under the slate joints.

                  For about the millionth time, thank you Geoff for sourcing the table, and thank you to the fitter who set it up!
                  王可

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                  • #10
                    Are you moving to Bulgaria then? Or somewhere else and are you getting another table when you move?

                    I have enjoyed reading about your table goings on regardless - Phillip (no longer) in China for much longer - you take care now
                    Last edited by Byrom; 27th November 2015, 12:07 AM.

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                    • #11
                      I work in China, but have a house in Bulgaria. The 10' table is here in China, the 12' B & W is in Bulgaria.

                      I am due to retire 213 days from today. Then I shall sell up here and go to Europe.

                      The 12' table was sourced in UK and exported to Bulgaria.
                      王可

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                      • #12
                        213 days - wow counting the days I see.

                        Happy days - more snooker and time on your hands to enjoy

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fractivsammy View Post
                          No brand name on the table. It's well over 70 years old. It's located in the USA so maybe it's an American manufacturer? If anyone recognizes it, I'd love to know!

                          [ATTACH]18150[/ATTACH]
                          [ATTACH]18151[/ATTACH]

                          Basically this exact table was just like the one I made my first ton on I remember the legs - beautiful table and thick slate bed - might be wrong but 2and a half inch thick welsh slate?
                          Had my highest break on an aristocrat steel blocked but loved that old B & Watts more and quite beautiful tables done up they are. Seems such a shame to see it in that condition with blue cloth n pool balls on it.

                          I would definitely get steel blocked cushions and a number 10 or 6811 cloth - basically you better having cushions and bed done in 6811 first time - lasts a bit longer and most match tables in Uk have 6811 fitted on cushions anyway and number 10 on the bed. You can always try out a different cloth afterwards on the bed and then keep the cushions the same, I would get a heater under the table a nice led white light over it new nets n leathers a good refinish on all of the wood n French polish the lot or whatever you do - bring it back to life set of G1's table iron few cues rests and scoreboard n off you trot - invite me over for a holiday free coaching - job done

                          Dreaming now - want one myself - does it show?
                          Last edited by Byrom; 27th November 2015, 12:35 AM.

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