Announcement

**NonStarter** · 24 December 2023, 12:34 AM

Find your vision centre. Stand behind the shot with the vision centre down the line of aim. Move and 'fall' into the shot without the head moving away to either side. Get down. Adjust the angle of your head slightly to the point you see the shot and it looks 'right'. Repeat this with the cue below the chin in the position it looked 'right' and repeat repeat repeat.

**aussieplayer** · 3 February 2024, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by NonStarter View Post

Find your vision centre. Stand behind the shot with the vision centre down the line of aim. Move and 'fall' into the shot without the head moving away to either side. Get down. Adjust the angle of your head slightly to the point you see the shot and it looks 'right'. Repeat this with the cue below the chin in the position it looked 'right' and repeat repeat repeat.

thank you for the reply. thought this forum is dead

well , i have been playing with centre chin for 8 years now, and always thought i have problem with the vision centre as i cannot see a straight shot straight.
i did try to find my dominant eye by doing few test, Barry Stark coach video shows, point a pen towards an object and hold the pen pointing towards the object (the pen must be vertical ) now while the pen is still pointing the object , bring the pen towards the face and chin, now see where the pen touches the chin, thats the correction position

now i am not 100% sure if i should try and keep playing like this.
yeah if someone agrees that this pen method works, then i will

i tried the traditional way, lining up few reds and moving my head side to side to find my vision centre but i cannot. both left chin and right chin looks straight to me when i do this test method to find the vision centre.

the other thing that i also tried myself is that i put my cue on baulk line, and i put a chalk or something small in the other end of baulk line, and i point my cue tip to the chalk and put my normal chin position and it feels that , i am pointing to the left of the chalk. HOLDING everything still i just move my head to left and right to see if i can point straight to that chalk but i cant, i use extream right and extream left , but i still point to the left of the chalk. tiling or turning head also doesnt work.
although i think only slightly the cue tip points better to the talk chalk when i use right chin, (but its not completely pointing to the object)

SIGH.....

its been years and i still cannot find vision center.
by the way , let me share something else, might be related or may not be

i read in an article that stephen henrys vision eyes are equal, and that is why he uses middle chin position.
and his eye patterns are like, he also look at the pocket when going : cueball ----object-------pocket

so
i found that my eye patterns are also doing like : cueball ----object-------pocket
and i am also using middle chin position! BUT when i do the dominant eye test position (where you strech your arms and make hole with your hand and while looking an object bringing the hand towards the face) i found that when i do this, i am right eye dominant.

but i always have been using center chin position. best on these facts, am i even eyed? or i am right eyed but using wrong chin position? or i am using the right chin position ?

i really need a help from someone out there

cant quit the game either but cant find the vision center either and get better

thank you very much

**vmax** · 4 February 2024, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by aussieplayer View Post

i read in an article that stephen hendrys vision eyes are equal, and that is why he uses middle chin position.
and his eye patterns are like, he also look at the pocket when going : cueball ----object-------pocket

so
i found that my eye patterns are also doing like : cueball ----object-------pocket
and i am also using middle chin position! BUT when i do the dominant eye test position (where you strech your arms and make hole with your hand and while looking an object bringing the hand towards the face) i found that when i do this, i am right eye dominant.

Stephen Hendry sighted with his right eye, it's clear to see in any video of him, cue under his right eye with a square stance that's natural for a right eye sighting right handed player so that he didn't have to turn his head too far to the left to get the cue under his natually favoured right eye.

When you switch your chin position to place your cue under either eye and can still see a straight shot it's because you're looking down the line of aim with one eye so that you only see one cue, either eye can be your sighting eye it doesn't have to be your dominant eye but only one eye must be used because we have two eyes that give two slightly different perspectives to our brains to make a complete picture, but there can only be one straight line in a picture not two, so for that reason our brains will favour one eye to find the straight line and this is your vision centre.

Don't over ride the eye your brain favours, you should fall naturally into place where you yourself can see a straight line, not where Stephen Hendry sees one or where Ronnie O'Sullivan sees one or where a coach says you must stand because centre chin is where your cue should be.

Your feet position will dictate this, don't ever move the cue or head position once you are down in your stance, experiment with the position of your feet when playing the cue ball up and down the table from the brown spot over the blue, pink and black spots and back to your tip.

If you're right handed and the cue ball comes back to the left of the cue ball then place your left foot slightly more forward, maybe wider as well, if the cue ball comes back to the right of your tip then place your left foot slightly back, maybe narrower as well, experiment also with the position of the right foot, place it slightly more outside the cue ball or inside the cue ball and in relation to the position of your left foot you should be able to find the correct position to bring the cue ball back to your tip more consistantly. Reverse all this if you're left handed.

Also don't change your feet position as you're getting down as this will move your body also, once the feet are planted keep them there, all the best players do this.

Don't do any of this while you're already down in your stance, make a conscious decision to change your feet position when stood up behind the shot and step into your stance accordingly.

Please don't reply to this post saying you've tried it and it doesn't work, we can't see you play and this is a guide to a generally accepted consensus that applies to everyone, once the grip hand is on the line of aim then tip to centre cue ball should mean the whole of the cue is on the line and from there it's about straight cueing which is much easier once your brain knows the cue is on the line. Stance is about putting the grip hand/butt of the cue on the line of aim, if your feet are in the wrong position then your head is, your body is, your cue arm is, your grip hand is and the butt of your cue is also, moving the feet means moving the head, body etc.

**aussieplayer** · 4 February 2024, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by vmax View Post

If you're right handed and the cue ball comes back to the left of the cue ball then place your left foot slightly more forward, maybe wider as well, if the cue ball comes back to the right of your tip then place your left foot slightly back, maybe narrower as well,

thank you i spent few hours today after reading your comment and played up and down with spotted white
and the whiteball keeps coming to the right, although no spin on the cueball at all. the spots on the cueball spins forward and clearly can see no side. but the cueball still comes back to the right of brown spot.

i already have square stance, and as you said, i moved my left foot even more back that it looks kind of strange, looks like my left foot is even further back then my right foot (would say 20% more squarer than a normal square stance) yet no side on cueball , but the cueball still comes back to right of brown spot

i feel like i am not looking directly straight into cueball , i mean the back of the cueball ()my eyes wanted to focus slightly to the right rather than straight ahead
my head is square and same position as it was while standing
hard to explain, but here is an example i uploaded the picture
PICTURE LINK HERE
https://ibb.co/m4vDGwN

when i cut balls when pockets are to my right the balls look like this, as if i am putting side, although its dead centre, but my eyes says put side, but in reality as soon as i put side, its no longer dead center, but my eyes says it is

and the opposite when i cut balls when the pockets are to the left of my body

this is why i think something is wrong with my vision center
thank you

**vmax** · 6 February 2024, 02:21 PM

If it looks like you're putting side on the cue ball how do you know it's actually dead centre ?

If that was me I would know because the tip would be dead centre and the amount of cue ball either side of it would be equal.

Are those pictures of your cue addressing a cue ball because it looks to me like a US pool cue.

Do you look at the cue ball when getting down and addressing your tip to it ?
Are you looking at the object ball as you're getting down and the tip ends up to one side or the other of centre cue ball when you switch eyes to cue ball ?
Or don't you know ?

Where you're looking during the shot making process is very important as it has great emphasis on where the cue is pointing.

**aussieplayer** · 10 February 2024, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by vmax View Post

If it looks like you're putting side on the cue ball how do you know it's actually dead centre ?

If that was me I would know because the tip would be dead centre and the amount of cue ball either side of it would be equal.

Are those pictures of your cue addressing a cue ball because it looks to me like a US pool cue.

Do you look at the cue ball when getting down and addressing your tip to it ?
Are you looking at the object ball as you're getting down and the tip ends up to one side or the other of centre cue ball when you switch eyes to cue ball ?
Or don't you know ?

Where you're looking during the shot making process is very important as it has great emphasis on where the cue is pointing.

no that is not my cue.
i know i dont put side because a friend looks from behind and the tip is always dead center. but as i said the prespectives are weired looking to me as in the picture

when i get down i look at the object ball and as bridge hand hits the table i switch to cueball and start from there
i also tried the opposite. i look at the object ball to line up and as i walkin i look at the cueball and as about to plant left foot i look at the object ball
and start from there

but while holding the cue tip on center cueball. my friend tells me its dead center ( but one side of the cueball looks more than the other to me, but i never make adjustment)
however the cueball picture looks different to me. as if my head is turned to right and instead of hitting the cueball straight to target i am aiming to right of target. and for some shots , the opposite. as if my head is turned to left and instead of aiming cueball straight to target, i am aiming to left of target

thank you coach

**vmax** · 10 February 2024, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by aussieplayer View Post

when i get down i look at the object ball and as bridge hand hits the table i switch to cueball and start from there
i also tried the opposite. i look at the object ball to line up and as i walkin i look at the cueball and as about to plant left foot i look at the object ball
and start from there

One must remember that you're not aiming your tip at the object ball, you're aiming the cue ball at the contact point on the object ball and addressing the tip to the cue ball to propell the cue ball on it's way to that target.
One must stand behind the shot and look at both balls to find this line which is as wide as the cue ball and from there the tip of the cue must be placed in the middle of the cue ball and therefore in the middle of the 2 & 1/16 inch wide line of aim. Looking at the object ball at the wrong time could very well lead to aiming the tip at the object ball which is only good for dead straight shots, angled shots mean the tip is outside the contact point on the object ball while being dead centre of the cue ball unless using sidespin which is a totally different question.

Stand behind a half ball cut shot, find the contact point on the object ball, then switch focus to the cue ball and while stood up place your right foot into its normal position and address tip of the cue at the centre of the cue ball while holding the cue only in your right hand with tip touching the cloth, switch focus to the contact point on the object ball then move your left foot into position, then look at the cue ball while keeping the tip at centre cue ball and get down into your stance and slide your bridge hand under the shaft until it reaches it's normal position and see if you can keep the tip at centre cue ball.
What does it look like from there ?

edit:
I just tried something, I'm a right handed left eye sighter with my left eye over the cue, If I take my usual stance and then when down shift my head so that my right eye is over the cue I get the same picture that you see as I'm still sighting down the cue with my left eye.
The above should sort you out, if not then I'm stumped.

**aussieplayer** · 11 February 2024, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by vmax View Post

One must remember that you're not aiming your tip at the object ball, you're aiming the cue ball at the contact point on the object ball and addressing the tip to the cue ball to propell the cue ball on it's way to that target.

wooooooow finally you got me out of confusion. seen many top players telling me that i have vision problem is because when i am down ,
they say remove the cueball and see if your cue tip is pointing to the object ball (dead straight shot) when i try my cue tip is never pointing towards the object ball.

and many coaches have told me the same thing, they said if its not pointing to the contact points of the object ball, then move your head until it does.
so until today i was not sure if they were right or wrong.
whenever i tried , the contact point or object ball itself was to the right of my tip.

this is why i always thought i have vision or sighting problem, and it confused me to use a different chin position.

can you please explain more about your this sentence please
"One must remember that you're not aiming your tip at the object ball, you're aiming the cue ball at the contact point on the object ball and addressing the tip to the cue ball to propell the cue ball on it's way to that target."

thanks

**aussieplayer** · 11 February 2024, 09:09 AM

i put my cue straight on baulk line. then i put a red ball at the end of the baulk line and i get down.
now watching my cue tip, and i can clearly see that red to the right of my cue tip. and my cue tip is not pointing to that red. i have to move the butt of the cue towards my left which moves the cue tip to the right towards that red, now the cue is offline but i can see that the cue tip is 100% pointing to that red

so by this example, what are your thoughts?
thank you very much

**vmax** · 11 February 2024, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by aussieplayer View Post

wooooooow finally you got me out of confusion. seen many top players telling me that i have vision problem is because when i am down ,
they say remove the cueball and see if your cue tip is pointing to the object ball (dead straight shot) when i try my cue tip is never pointing towards the object ball.

and many coaches have told me the same thing, they said if its not pointing to the contact points of the object ball, then move your head until it does.
so until today i was not sure if they were right or wrong.
whenever i tried , the contact point or object ball itself was to the right of my tip.

this is why i always thought i have vision or sighting problem, and it confused me to use a different chin position.

can you please explain more about your this sentence please
"One must remember that you're not aiming your tip at the object ball, you're aiming the cue ball at the contact point on the object ball and addressing the tip to the cue ball to propell the cue ball on it's way to that target."

thanks

As I mentioned, the line of aim is as wide as the cue ball, now imagine this, if a ten millimetre hole was drilled in the cue ball dead centre and your tip inserted into that hole your tip would then be 2 & 1/16 of an inch wide, the same width as the line of aim and it's basic knowledge that on a perfect half ball cut shot, the place where your tip is inserted into the cue ball (exactly dead centre) is pointing at the very edge of the object ball.
This is how billiard players line up 1/2 ball in offs from the D, set up a half ball cut with ball in hand, place tip to centre cue ball pointing through the cue ball to the outside edge of the object red or white and that will take the cue ball into the pocket.

But the actual contact point on the object ball that the cue ball will make is not the very edge of the object ball, it's slightly inside of it so if you aim the tip at the contact point on the object ball then the actual contact the cue ball will make is thicker, yes ?

**vmax** · 11 February 2024, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by vmax View Post

Stand behind a half ball cut shot, find the contact point on the object ball, then switch focus to the cue ball and while stood up place your right foot into its normal position and address tip of the cue at the centre of the cue ball while holding the cue only in your right hand with tip touching the cloth, switch focus to the contact point on the object ball then move your left foot into position, then look at the cue ball while keeping the tip at centre cue ball and get down into your stance and slide your bridge hand under the shaft until it reaches it's normal position and see if you can keep the tip at centre cue ball.
What does it look like from there ?

edit:
I just tried something, I'm a right handed left eye sighter with my left eye over the cue, If I take my usual stance and then when down shift my head so that my right eye is over the cue I get the same picture that you see as I'm still sighting down the cue with my left eye.
The above should sort you out, if not then I'm stumped .

Did you try this ? because in post #10 you did something else.

And did you read my edit ? and if so do you think that this could be what you're doing, moving your head so that your cue is under the eye that isn't sighting down the cue therefore making the cue look off line.

**aussieplayer** · 11 February 2024, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by vmax View Post

Did you try this ? because in post #10 you did something else.

And did you read my edit ? and if so do you think that this could be what you're doing, moving your head so that your cue is under the eye that isn't sighting down the cue therefore making the cue look off line.

thank you i am really working on what you said
Please look at this picture, this is what i mean.
___________________
https://ibb.co/JtnYLSF

1: the cue is on baulk line pointing straight to the cueball
2: when i am in adress position ----- that is how the white ball looks, and if i move the butt of the cue to the left, which moves the cue tip to the right then i will be pointing the cue tip to the whiteball

**Beertrix Potter** · 11 February 2024, 12:41 PM

Have you tried tilting your head? As per your baulk line picture, with your chin on the cue, try tilting your head either side of its vertical centre line. You may find that the cue and ball will shift in your eye's image to be in line.

**aussieplayer** · 11 February 2024, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Beertrix Potter View Post

Have you tried tilting your head? As per your baulk line picture, with your chin on the cue, try tilting your head either side of its vertical centre line. You may find that the cue and ball will shift in your eye's image to be in line.

is this an issue? and the cause why my cue butt is offline all the time?

when i place the cueball next to the tip, the cueball looks fine, but the object ball looks like that in the picture

so wether there is a cueball next to the cue tip or not. the object ball always looks about half ball to right of line of aim, as shown in the picture

yes i did try tiling, moving my head side to side, not sure what to do..... been playing like this for 5 years

and cannot even play match, i just solo practice all the time caz i know i have alignment problem. but not sure if this is the root cause of my alignment

Announcement

any suggestions? I cannot line up the shot

any suggestions? I cannot line up the shot

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment