Strike with the elbow!!!

[HUFRO]

Hi Terry;

I taped myself potting long blues from bulk (staright pots) and found that at the end of he delivery my head was about 4 inches from the cue. I also found that I put unwanted arm/shoulder movement at the time of delivery. I try to correct those points, first by keeping the chin on the cue (consciously pressing gently my chin on the cue) until the object ball is in the pocket or hit the cushion, for the second point I'll follow an advice that I read in this forum "stike with the elbow, keep the arm still".

Shoud I concentrate on one of these points at a time or try to concentrate on both at the same time. I did the latest but It seems that when I concentrate on one I miss the other point.

Please; I appreciate any comments on these points.

Thanks

Hufro

[Inoffthered]

Can you post the vid?

[HUFRO]

Here are the videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fha0MaAlahc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEKkMh8KbjY

[Inoffthered]

Good videos ( but I'm no coach ). I see what you mean. It could be some involuntary twisting of your wrist as you strike through the ball? I'm sure Terry and other coaches on here will be able to give you better insight.

Nice set up and table by the way! Keep it up!

[philthoms]

Hi Hufro, You are potting most of the balls so there is some consistency. You could try playing either a straight blue or even pink from their respective spots using 'stun run through' which obviously requires a little more force and see where the cue ball comes to rest. Ideally it should follow in a straight line. See what results you get and any problem will be a little easier to analyse.
If I am off-form I always use this method to get myself playing well again.

[nrage]

Here are the videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fha0MaAlahc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEKkMh8KbjY

You have exactly the same cueing fault as I do/did. What happens is that during delivery the tip moves first left and then right (from camera perspective, right then left from yours). What this does/means is that you can only play a straight pot if you hit the white at exactly the right time, when the cue tip has moved back to center. If you strike 'early' the cue tip is to the left (camera) and the white goes right, sending the object left. If you strike 'late' the cue tip is to the right (camera) and the white goes left, sending the object right.

The yellow and blue are examples of an 'early' strike, where the cue tip is off to the left (camera). In this case the white goes right, and the object ball goes left. The reason you still potted these two was for 2 or 3 reasons:
1. The movement of the fault in this direction is much smaller, so the tip has moved less far off center.
2. The yellow was not lined up straight, so the deviation actually helped.
3. Missing slightly to the left (camera) in this case is better than missing to the right, as the cushion can help it in. Hitting the other jaw is fatal.

The brown is a perfect example of a 'late' strike, where the cue tip is off to the right (camera). In this case the white goes to the left, and the brown misses to the right. If you pause the video at the point where the brown strikes the cushion, you can see your cue tip is pointing to where the brown strikes the cushion, off to the right (camera) of the pocket.

Download kinovea from here and play those videos back in slow motion. Pay careful attention to the cue tip and where it goes during the strike, and also where it ends up.

I also note your elbow position is behind the back, my elbow is/was in exactly the same position. This is not necessarily a 'problem' as such, however when it hangs behind your back like that, you are prone to moving the grip hand away from the chest, simply because the most likely/common direction you will accidentally move the grip hand is directly away from the elbow joint, and this result in downward and away from the chest motion, causing the reverse in the cue tip (upward and right (from camera) motion).

I found my grip hand moved more when I was hitting harder, and trying to screw. So, this upward and right motion meant I was not hitting the bottom of the white, and adding side all the time. I could not pot a straight screw shot, at all.

To fix the cue motion, step 1 is check how tightly you're gripping the cue. My fault was fixed almost instantly by loosening my grip.

1. Hold the cue in your grip hand, across your body.
2. Grab the cue with your other hand and attempt to slide the cue in your grip.

It should slide, if it does not you're gripping it too tight. Loosen it so the cue slides, but make sure there are no gaps in the first finger, or 2nd finger and thumb 'grip' around the cue. This should be closed with no gaps, but not so tight as to stop the cue sliding in the grip. Now, get down on a shot and attempt to play it without changing that tension in the hand at all, really concentrate on only using the muscles in the elbow, and nothing else. Don't worry about the pot, just focus on the action and feel what it's like when you hit with no additional tension in the hand.

As for the elbow, the solution for me was to get down in front of a mirror and check my position. Get up, get down, repeat, until I can get down in, and feel the correct elbow position. I still haven't got this, as my elbow can drift behind my back, but it's much better and it has helped my cueing.

Edit; Just watched the rear/behind camera view. You can see the hand move in and then away, but note how small that motion is, yet how much effect it has on the cue tip in the other video. It's tiny motions like these which affect the accuracy of your cueing. Something that might help is getting the right hip a little further over to the left, and out of the way. Subconsciously you may be moving to avoid it, even though it's not really in the way. To get it further to the left you emphasize the left knee bend and twist just a touch more in the waist.

[HUFRO]

Thanks nrage

You really analized my cue action in depht. I'llfollow your advices when practicing today.
I have Kinovea installed that is how I find out about those movements. I will analize them again.

I will have coaching lesson this Sunday with Terry Davison. I'llpost my experience in a future forum post.

Thanks for your help

Hufro

[Terry Davidson]

HUFRO:

Sorry I missed your original posts but I have an excuse as I'm not getting any email notifications and sometimes I miss some posts. I think nrage has analysed your cue action in depth and when you come up on Sunday we will work on getting the delivery straight.

Loosening that grip is a key point and don't worry about the elbow too much as Higgins and Hendry play that way although their elbow drop into their back is not as severe as yours, so we will work on that too and mostly elbow position is controlled by the grip so that may be where your main problem is

Terry

[nrage]

Thanks nrage

You really analized my cue action in depht. I'llfollow your advices when practicing today.
I have Kinovea installed that is how I find out about those movements. I will analize them again.

I will have coaching lesson this Sunday with Terry Davison. I'llpost my experience in a future forum post.

Thanks for your help

No problem, you're welcome. Terry helped me out with a coaching session when he was over here in the UK recently. I'm sure he'll sort you out

[Terry Davidson]

HUFRO:

OK, I took a good look at the videos. Can't see much from the head-on shots over the black pocket but the shots from behind the cue are REALLY revealing. I see at least 4 major problems and we will get these sorted on Sunday.

1. In the address position and during the feathers you maintain a good wrist cock, however when you deliver the cue you are twisting the wrist which moves the butt of the cue sideways (and thus the tip). It's not a lot but will cost you both long pots and pots to closed pockets.

2. The angle of the cue is very high and we will have to work on you to get the chest DOWN because if you take a look at the rear shot the thumb of your grip hand in the address position is up above your waist when it should be down opposite the hip. You also have the body too close to the grip hand which inhibits a smooth cue action. (This is of course if you are physically capable of getting down more on the shot without discomfort).

3. Your bridge is not what you're adjusting the height of the tip on the cueball with and it should be. You are raising and lowering the butt to achieve screw or top spin, so we will drill the proper technique into you on Sunday too. Coupled with the wrist turn this in effect means you are playing with a bit of masse on every screw shot.

4. It looks like your 'drive' through the cueball is not the best and you seem to be closing the grip too soon in the delivery, which leads to deceleration through the cueball (and sometimes head/shoulder movement). This again is a grip problem (which I've just recently sorted out in my own cue action by the way).

Terry

[HUFRO]

Thanks Terry;

I'll try to correct those points before I meet you sunday.

hufro

[davidwu]

how do u know if your grip isnt too loose?

[Terry Davidson]

davidwu:

nrage gives the method in his post above but here it is again. Hold your cue across your hips as you would normally do when standing behind the shot. Form your grip as you normally would. Now with your bridge hand hold the shaft of the cue about 2ft from the tip and then keeping your grip hand still in space, try and move the cue back and forth with the other hand BUT THE GRIP HAND SHOULD NOT MOVE WITH THE CUE!!!

The cue should slide EASILY within the grip and just as important the main hold on the cue should be with the top of the forefinger and thumb with the back 3 fingers of the grip relaxed and just lightly touching the butt.

Terry

[davidwu]

davidwu:

nrage gives the method in his post above but here it is again. Hold your cue across your hips as you would normally do when standing behind the shot. Form your grip as you normally would. Now with your bridge hand hold the shaft of the cue about 2ft from the tip and then keeping your grip hand still in space, try and move the cue back and forth with the other hand BUT THE GRIP HAND SHOULD NOT MOVE WITH THE CUE!!!

The cue should slide EASILY within the grip and just as important the main hold on the cue should be with the top of the forefinger and thumb with the back 3 fingers of the grip relaxed and just lightly touching the butt.

Terry

thanks Terry, however I have a feeling that my grip too loose, because I get more cue power when I tighten my grip, but all the advice I got state that grip should be as loose as possible.

[Terry Davidson]

David:

As long as the cue doesn't fly out of your hand then the grip isn't too loose. The idea of having a grip as loose as possible is to prevent the player from tightening the grip too early in the delivery. Tightening the grip should not happen until the cue is well through the cueball and ideally when the grip hand hits the chest.

The grip should only be tight enough to control the cue but WITHOUT exerting any pressure on the butt hardly at all and the pressure should only be applied by the upper part of the forefinger and thumb.

Also, there should be no 'air gap' between the butt of the cue and the web of skin between the thumb and forefinger.

If you meet all of these tests then your grip is not too loose.

One other thing, you are the very first person I've come across who believes he can get more power with a tighter grip. Normally I get students whose grip is too tight and when I loosen it off and force them to use a loose grip they get much more spin on the cueball because they are accelerating through the cuball.

If you can grip the cue tighter than most people and still DRIVE the cue through the cueball and have the cue still accelerating well after hitting the cueball then more power to you.

Terry